02-01-2004, 03:01 PM
I was interested in the thoughts of those who use PALTALK.
I have a group called "Calvinist Chat" and it seems that the
MAJORITY of users on paltalk are VERY OPPOSED to Calvinism,
yet at the same time I have found this to be because of ignorance
of the REAL teachings of Calvinism... Comments on your own
02-01-2004, 10:45 PM
The problem I've discovered with most who claim to be Calvinists is they hold to paradox theology and confuse the Arminian to death. Today's calvinists in the same breath will affirm that God loves everyone and hates sinners at the same time. Today's "calvinists" will say that God's death was efficient only for the elect but sufficient for everyone. Today's calvinists will say that men are justified by faith, but final salvation is dependent upon our works. Many of today's calvinists aren't calvinists but lost arminians and so it is no wonder to me that Arminians are confused by what calvinists have to say about the reformed faith. I would say the majority of Calvinists today aren't even Calvinists, but instead are Amyraldians.
02-02-2004, 07:32 PM
I see that you see some of the same inconsistencies that I do.
Wondering why paltalk is not being used to teach Calvinism...
I can certainly see it is being used to malign it.
Robert R. Higby
02-02-2004, 08:22 PM
What you have pointed out here is the very basis of why I judge 'Arminians' less harshly than ever before. An intelligent Arminian can easily see that Calvinists still appeal to paradox. So the same Arminian will ask, why should I change? If paradox is the ultimate solution to issues of theology, why should a believer in free-will EVER commit to predestinarian teaching? It is obvious that he won't if paradox theology is touted as the answer to problems in biblical interpretation.
02-03-2004, 05:38 AM
"it seems that the MAJORITY of users on paltalk are VERY OPPOSED to Calvinism, yet at the same time I have found this to be because of ignorance of the REAL teachings of Calvinism"
I would agree with this, and it's certainly nothing new. I've been chatting online for about 10 years now, and this is in fact the primary reason people are opposed to Calvinism - ignorance of what it really is.
When we first opened 5Solas Bible Fellowship Chat, in April of 2001 (originally Bible Fellowship) on msn, it was for a refuge, for a relaxed, welcoming atmosphere, for those who had questions about the doctrines of grace, that wanted to learn, and come to a deeper understanding of these teachings of Scripture. There were only 2 of us at the time, who saw the great need for a room like this on msn, and took steps to provide it. We had no idea if it would work or not, but we just opened the room one day, and figured we'd let the Lord tell us if the need was really there, or not. He made it pretty clear the need was there, and in the fall of 2001, the room name changed to 5Solas Bible Fellowship, as we merged efforts with Brandan (Darth Gill) to share the resources of this site, and our msn community. After nearly 3 years, I can personally see that the need for this kind of room is greater now, than it was then. Lord willing, our little room will remain, and Lord willing, all the admins who sacrifice their time to minister in there, will continue their service. (And God bless them for it, it's truly a tough job, much of the time).
One of the greatest blessings of having this room open for almost 3 years now, is the small handful of brother and sisters who once came in there, staunchly holding to free will, who now denounce that as a false teaching, and have embraced the doctrines of grace as true, Biblical doctrine.
You asked: "Wondering why paltalk is not being used to teach Calvinism...
I can certainly see it is being used to malign it."
In our room, we didn't set out to teach Calvinism. We set out to provide a place to discuss the doctrines of grace, as taught in the Scriptures. Some of the folks who chat there, and/or the admins of the room, call themselves Calvinists, while most do not. While Calvin's teachings are in fact discussed, the more important question as it always should be, is what does the BIBLE say about this?
In alot of folks eyes, our little ole chat room doesn't quite measure up. We're far too Calvinistic for many, and just not quite Calvinistic enough, for a few others. That's allright by me, and I'm willing to bet it'd be allright by ole John Calvin too. We do our best to provide facts about the man, and about what he taught, and like ole John Calvin, our goal is not to exalt ourselves, or any teaching of man, but to point folks to the Scriptures, for sound Biblical doctrine.
Last fall our room moved over to PALTALK from msn, and we've got quite a few more folks there, truly interested in the doctrines of grace, than we ever did on msn. Just last night I read the text of a chatter who said "I didn't even know I was Calvinistic until a few weeks ago, I just read the Bible and then later found out Calvin taught the same thing that I believe". She's been a regular chatter in the room for the last month or so.
Daily, we have folks coming in who ask "what are the 5 solas?". We take great joy in answering that question, and directing them to the articles here on it, and at the Bible Fellowship site. Other common questions are "what is calvinism?" "what do you mean by tulip?" "what are the doctrines of grace?" "what is the reformation?". We get these kinds of questions every single day. Sometimes they're posted by those who just want to cause trouble, but many times they're posted by people who are genuinely interested in knowing what it is we believe. Expounding on the grace of God as taught in the Scriptures, is the best time I've ever spent in any chat room, my own, or anyone else's.
So, while it may seem that Calvinism is much maligned on PT (and it is), look a little closer, and you'll see that God's grace is in fact being taught there, by many who desire to share this truth with others. We may still be in the minority, but that's allright, His will be done.
02-03-2004, 01:55 PM
Hello friends :D
Just wanted to speak out a little myself as well. Like Carla above, I have been chatting on AOL first, then MSN, and now on Paltalk for about 7-8 years. As I have wallowed through the muck of chat, I have ran across and been a part of many different theologies and doctrinal teachings. Here I am now, (to borrow a phrase), "reformed and reforming".
Since becoming reformed in my doctrine 2 years ago, I have learned much. One of those thing's is how much Calvinism is hated among free-will believers. Being a former Arminian, and not that far removed from it, I can understand both sides of this issue. Calvinism has many different faces, some good and some negative. As an Arminian, I met with many of them, and to tell you the truth, it was because of some of them, that it took me a long time to accept the Doctrine's of Grace. On MSN, I kicked many of them out of the rooms I hosted in.
What it took, was someone sitting down with me and showing me scripture's, challenging me to see the truth written therein, and always of course, by the leading of the Spirit. They did not share Calvin with me, they shared Christ. They shared the truth of God's word. The results were obvious. I saw the error and false doctrine of free-will belief. I saw just how Amazing the Grace of God was!
Do or will I call myself a Calvinist? No! Can I stop others from calling me that, NO. But I can tell them what I am no matter what label they place on me. I am a Christian, (Christ-Like), Not a Calvinist, (Calvin-like). Here's how I respond to those that call me a Calvinist:
I don't follow Calvin, I follow Christ! I don't follow Calvin's word, I follow God's word, and quote it word for word. Let there be no confusion between Christ's name, (Christian), which I bear, and Calvin's.
I shall continue to Preach the Gospel to all that will listen, and it will be by the Word of God. And although the teaching will sound alot like what Calvin taught, he got it from the Bible just like I did. :)
Pa†rick (a.k.a. RPatricktm)
02-05-2004, 06:50 AM
Enjoyed reading your comments. God bless!