Catholic Charismatic Revival ( CCR)

[Pilgrim]

In the 1940's the second wave of charimatic revival occurred in the Catholic Church and hence it was called CCR. It was a big revival. The third wave is sweeping thru protestantism. Do we see unity in the Spirit ? Or do we see confusion.....eg tongue speaking Mary believing Cathlolic in unity with tongue speaking Bible believing protestant?

[gsr]

Yes there was a revival, of Catholicism. The attendance of the Cahtolic congregations grew, they still worshipped Mary and pope. The use of the spiritual gifts appeared, they still worshipped Mary and pope. Spirit filled Protestants were drawn so much by these events that they even called practicing Catholic members and priests, brother.

The net result is that the modern Charismatic movement has been a great means for the unity of non-catholics and Catholics. A form of Ecumenism that starts outside the mainline denominations and then becomes another corrupting influence within them.

The Catholics in those movements who truly had a revival, more than likely have left the church of Rome. The rest have had the signs and form but no substance. Thus the largest cult of the world is still given a pass by church leadership due to some being "spirit filled". I really question which spirit is doing this filling.

[Andrew]

I believe there is more unity than b4. But I've never known any revival to totally clear up doctrines and demolish all denominational lines. I dont think that's the purpose of revival.

[Pilgrim]

There is only one true unity and that is among those who will trully live the Word. Hence the one great revival that we can be sure of was the Reformation and at the centre of it was the going forth of the Bible truth which the Catholic Church desperately tried to stop ...... at the pain of death! Yes true revivals is about unity in truth.

[Andrew]

Revivals bring people back or closer to God, and cause thousands to turn to Christ. It's about God pouring out his Holy Spirit in grace. One of the results is greater unity, but revivals also cause division.

Revivals dont bring abt a "one unified church", neither does trying to "live the Word". The latter places emphasis on self-effort. Unity in the church can only occur when Christ comes back to rule the world.

While we thank God for Luther and the reformation, it certainly did not bring about true unity. There's still the Catholic-Protestant division, and division among the protestants themselves.

God bless

[Pilgrim]

Those who thru the reformation/revival were united were those who were true to the Word. On the other side was the Catholic Church. Of course true revival brings division just as that sword that comes out of Christ's mouth will divide. Those who were true were united withChrist and each other even unto death.

Revelation speaks of a great false revival that will be coming, a loose unity between many religions and governments. They overlook their differences for earthly gain. But opposing them is the remnant of God, small, discarded of man but treasured of God. And He comes for His faithful. Revelation 14:12 describe their common identifying spiritual characteristics.......patience, keep God's commandments, faith of Jesus!

Andrew......don't tell me these are works of the flesh. Rev 14:12 describe those true remnant who spreads the "eternal gospel" . See Rev 14:6. If they spread the gospel and yet keep the commandments, they are in loving obedience and at one with Christ.

[Andrew]

Hey pilgrim I'm all for revival. I'm still waiting for revival to sweep my entire country! All I'm saying is that all the revivals in the world thus far has not brought absolute unity among Christians in the sense that you still have diff denominations and arguments (like this forum *LOL*).

I believe this unity utopia will only happen after Christ returns.

God bless

[PILGRIM313]

Revivals are not so much about unity as they are about repentance and turning back to God. I am surprised to see that some think the Catholics had a 'revival'....how can one be 'revived' if they were never 'close' to God in the first place?
Pilgrim313

[Andrew]

But if they we're already close to God, why wld they need a revival?

Revival usu happens when the church is "dead", when the community is full of sin. A few committed ppl get together to pray fervently for God's outpouring and then revival comes.

Watch the Christian documentary "Transformations" and you'll see. It's about true life accounts of how revival swept thru 4 communities that were steep in sin. It's amazing what can happen.

As for the Catholics, I'm not for judging and condeming them as cults, etc. God loves them too, and labels dont matter as long as you have the blood of Jesus. I believe their Catholic charismatic move is a good thing - better than none at all.:D

[Pilgrim]

Imagine this, a revival, a large group of worshippers gathered and sang, prayed and amidst estatic utterances, reached an emotional high. Several fall to the floor as if dead. Some had visions of Mary, confessed their sins and one stopped drinking. Some acquired tounges. They spoke but none could understand the other. Some tried to interpret but even the intepretations were not aligned. Some gave thanks to Mary, some to Christ. Some did penance and gave indulgences and some prfessed that God's spirit had taken over their lives. Some laughed uncontrollably.

Some researches studying these things had these conclusions:
# The utterances had the same pattern as the leader's
# The utterances .....no known earthly language
# The brain waves.....like that of Eastern mediums in trances
# In testing the genuiness of the interpreters, they played a tape in Latin of someone giving thanks to God for healing his back problem, but played it to them separately. None of their interpretatios were even close. In fact they were conflicting interpretations.
# They continued to hold different doctrinal stands eg Mary vs Christ; 10 Commandments relevant vs completely irrelevant etc

One spirit but many basic differences? Not possible! The Bible says we are brothers in Christ if we are doers of the Word and that all who believe will uphold the law and the testimony, if not there is no light in them

[PILGRIM313]

Andrew posted:
"Revival usu happens when the church is "dead", when the community is full of sin. A few committed ppl get together to pray fervently for God's outpouring and then revival comes. "

I disagree with you here Andrew. Revival ALWAYS happens when God sends His Spirit with Power, to do His will!
There was not a group of people praying for Revival when Martin Luther saw the light during his studies. He was part of the beginning of the greatest revival in the history of Christ's church. The Revival happened because God chose to send His Spirit to draw His chosen people to Himself. It has been this way since time began and will continue to be until He ends time.

Pilgrim313