Clapping

[paulschafer]

Originally posted by Dr. Gill
What do you think about clapping?I think clapping and even raising hands in a worship service is great.

When you hear a musical performance, do you think it's right to clap? Yes, your giving honor to God and honor to others.

What about in a church setting? Is it ok to clap? Yes, same thing above.

Is it glorifying man rather than God? No, because God authorized it in scriptures.

What are your thoughts regarding this topic?

Clapping and raising hands is a outward expression of my worship towards God.

[Brandan Kraft]

My views have changed concerning hand clapping. I think it is up to the congregation and the individual's freedom of conscience.

[paulschafer]

Go on, new friend, share with me your thoughts.

[wildboar]

I think it depends upon the reason for the clapping. Clapping most often seems to be done to give glory to the person performing rather than God. At my church during services we do not have performances for this reason. I don't think it is necessarily wrong for someone to sing a solo during a service, but it can be dangerous. In the RCC prior to the Reformation the choir did most of the singing, so many of the Reformed churches elimated the choirs altogether. I'm certainly not saying that choirs in and of themselves are sinful, but I've come to appreciate simple services where many of the distractions have been taken away and I can glorify God.

I've also noticed that there is an inverse relationship between the amoung of times amen is said during the service and the number of people in the congregation who know what Amen means

Sola Gratia,
WildBoar

[paulschafer]

I think promotion is better than abstinance in this case. I've found in my eleven years as a christian that there are too few of christians who understand how to give glory to God. If a pastor promotes through his teaching that clapping unto the Lord brings God glory than more people would respond in honoring God. It's better than abstinance, because all that'll do is remove clapping from any type of service, but the people would never understand the deeper issue. Honoring and glorifying God.

[GraceAmbassador]

WildBoar states
I think it depends upon the reason for the clapping. Clapping most often seems to be done to give glory to the person performing rather than God. At my church during services we do not have performances for this reason. I don't think it is necessarily wrong for someone to sing a solo during a service, but it can be dangerous. In the RCC prior to the Reformation the choir did most of the singing, so many of the Reformed churches elimated the choirs altogether. I'm certainly not saying that choirs in and of themselves are sinful, but I've come to appreciate simple services where many of the distractions have been taken away and I can glorify God.

I had the same problem in almost every congregation God entrusted me with overseeing them or helping in overseeing them. People became the focus of worship and that was wrong. I was able to find a solution, but I only applied it after I dealt with the "personality worship" problem:

I separated completely the services where our congregations would go exclusively for musical worship than that of the service where the Word of God was to be expounded. After the singing I would calm everyone down with silent prayer or even announcements. Many would complained that "I was interrupting the annointing" (???) and they left. I didn't mind they did. Actually, I was glad they did! We were not there for show or spectacles.
During the "preaching service" there might have been (and I encouraged) some Amen and/or Hallelluiah during the message but the exposition of the Word received its own peculiar dedicated time. Some admitted later that the "music, the clapping and the visible manifestations" were good but were not helping them. Only when the Word was expounded they could grow in Grace, they confessed.
I do not know whether these congretations practice this form of "distinct purpose" service, but it worked when I was there.

For many here this may sound like a surprise:

I would rather have no music and a great teaching or preaching of the word than to have a lot of great muisic and musicians and a "sermonette" that can only develop people into "christianettes".

Think of a household: The children may play and have their fun and the father will look at them proud, especially when they devote their attention to him and say that they love him and praise him for being such a nice daddy. However, is when the father speaks and counsels his children, admonish them, rebuke them and feed them, that they can grow and be strong. In most healthy families, the father will purposefully stop the playing and the demonstrations of love and will make sure he speaks with his children, demand their full attention and verify that they understood his words.

Same with God I believe!

When we praise and worship God we are telling Him about our feelings for Him and dedicating words that "wish Him some Glory" when He is independent of anything we say to have His Glory. We do it because we are ordered to do so. It is not because if we don't, then God "will have no Glory". But when the Word of God is taught, then God speaks to us.

A healthy congregation, in my view, is characterized by how much they hear from God rather than how much God hears from them.

...Just my opinion...

[jhamrick]

Ps 47:1, (NIV), For the director of music. Of the Sons of Korah. A psalm. Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy.

This, (along with other verses), seems to be a command to clap your hands. If this is true, not only is it OK, but it is also required.

[Brandan Kraft]

Ps 47:1, (GILL), INTRODUCTION TO PSALM 47
To the chief Musician, A Psalm for the sons of Korah. Thus psalm is thought by some to be written on occasion of the ark being brought from the house of Obededom to the city of David, to the place he had prepared for it; which was attended with singing and dancing, with shouting, and the sound of a trumpet, 2Sa 6:12; but it rather seems to be penned on account of the ascension of Christ to heaven, prophetically spoken of in this psalm; and of the spread of the Gospel, and the conquests it made in the Gentile world upon Christ's ascension; as the whole psalm shows: and even Aben Ezra and Kimchi apply it to the times of the Messiah; and so do some of their most ancient writers, who particularly interpret Ps 47:5 of him, as may be seen in the note upon it.

O clap your hands, all ye people, Meaning the Gentiles more especially; see Ps 117:1 compared with Ro 15:9; who had reason to rejoice and be glad, since the ascended Lord and King here spoken of was given to be their Saviour, was the propitiation for their sins, and had given himself a ransom price for them; and now the Gospel was preached among them, by an order from him after his resurrection; and upon his ascension gifts were bestowed on his apostles, qualifying them for it; when many of them were converted by it, and were made partakers of the same grace and privileges with the Jews that believed in Christ, and were formed into Gospel churches. Wherefore they are called upon to declare their joy and gladness by "clapping their hands"; which is a gesture expressive of exultation and joy; see Ps 98:8 Na 3:19. It was used at the unction and coronation of a king, 2Ki 11:12; and so very proper to be used on occasion of the Messiah being made or declared Lord and Christ, as he was at his ascension, Ac 2:36;

shout unto God with the voice of triumph; as when triumphs are made on account of victories obtained, which was now the case; Christ having conquered sin, Satan, and the world, by his sufferings and death, and having spoiled principalities and powers, made a show of them, openly triumphing over them, when he ascended on high, and led captivity captive; and he having sent his apostles into the Gentile world with his Gospel, they were caused to triumph in him wherever they came. And now these external actions of clapping hands, and shouting with the voice, are expressive of inward spiritual joy; which those among the people who were conquered by the grace of God, and had a sight of their ascended Lord and Saviour, were filled with: and who are exhorted to express it in this manner, unto God: not to angels, nor to men, no, not to ministers, who brought the joyful tidings to them; but to God, either to God the Father, for all their temporal and spiritual blessings; especially for the unspeakable gift of his Son, to suffer and die for them: or to the Son of God, God manifest in the flesh; God that was gone up with a shout, Ps 47:5; and was now at the right hand of God, crowned with glory and honour; who, by the sufferings of death, had obtained eternal redemption for them.

---

I agree, that we as Christians are moved from within to outwardly express our joy in Christ! To think that Christ led me, a cold hard sinner out of captivity makes me want to dance and clap and shout for joy (which I have by the way!)

But should we dance and clap and shout for joy in our assembly meetings? Would everyone doing this at once produce confusion? Paul says we are to speak one at a time. Would we take turns dancing and shouting for joy?

Brandan

[wildboar]

The question as I understood was whether or not we are to clap for the performances of people in church. The clapping Psalm 47:1 is being done by the congregation in joy towards God. They are not clapping because did a really neat flute solo, hit the high note, or told a funny joke. They are clapping out of joy toward God.

Sola Gratia,
WildBoar

[jhamrick]

Should there even be performances in our assemblies? When you really start thinking about it, the entire fundamental process of how we "do church" is so far off track, that it makes it hard to pick out one act, such as clapping, and say that it is wrong.

I do however believe in corporate worship/celebration, and any celebration without the occasional hand-clapping is a little odd. So, I guess the next question would be, do we need to separate that time from the learning/discipling time? Is there a difference?

[paulschafer]

Originally posted by Dr. Gill
[
But should we dance and clap and shout for joy in our assembly meetings? Would everyone doing this at once produce confusion? Paul says we are to speak one at a time. Would we take turns dancing and shouting for joy?

Brandan [/B]

My opinion is yes we should dance, clap and shout, sing, kneel, cry and be silent before the Lord in assembly meetings.
Would it produced confusion? No, almost every one's eyes are not on their surroundings and the worship leaders, but they are focused on the Lord and on the words on the overhead or powerpoint. Apostle Paul's words were expressed on delivering a "timely word" to a congregation whether in the form of prophecy, interpreted tongue, a song or sermon. Would we take turns, no, unless the pastor under the annointing of the Holy Spirit tells us congregation folk to dance or shout or clap. After the worship songs end, my pastor Jeff, encourages us to clap to the Lord once in awhile or encourages us to not stop praising Him when the music stops.

Paul

[Skeuos Eleos]

A few observations (but not answers!):
1. nowhere in the NT are we encouraged to clap
2. In the old covenant worship is to be according to the law but in the new covenant worship is to be in Spirit and in truth
3. Perhaps the OT verses when viewed through the new covenant are not to be viewed so literally as a set of dos and donts in worship?
4. We've covered it before (was it in this thread?) but its worth saying again - whatever we do or don't do we are not to put stumbling blocks in the way of our brothers and sisters in the Lord and the problem remains that some people find clapping a natural thing to do in worship whilst others feel uncomfortable or find it off-putting.

Martin

[wildboar]

jhamrick:

Should there even be performances in our assemblies?

I think its best to keep them out of the worship service and we find no Scriptural mandate for them.

Sola Gratia,
WildBoar

[Jabbok]

In our church, clapping occurs when the soloist or choir does an exceptionally fine job, However, it is absent when the special music is not quite up to "Nashville" standards. I would assume this is the case in most churches that practice clapping. If they clap just to be polite are they lying? Now substitute the word "Applause" for the word "Clap". Should we "Applaud" one another in a worship service?
Give glory to whom glory is due but the worship hour belongs to King Jesus!

My .02 worth....

[disciple]

Originally posted by Jabbok
In our church, clapping occurs when the soloist or choir does an exceptionally fine job, However, it is absent when the special music is not quite up to "Nashville" standards. I would assume this is the case in most churches that practice clapping. If they clap just to be polite are they lying? Now substitute the word "Applause" for the word "Clap". Should we "Applaud" one another in a worship service?
Give glory to whom glory is due but the worship hour belongs to King Jesus!

My .02 worth....

good post jabbok. i personally don't clap because of that reason but there are many at my church do clap. what i think we who have decided that it is wrong to clap need to watch is our attitude toward those who do clap. it can sometimes be easy to look down on them as not having arrived in their understanding of this issue. it is often difficult to hold strong convictions and not judge others for not sharing them with you. this is yet another issue that is governed by what paul said in Ro 14. let us be fully convinced in our own minds, but let us not judge one another. may we accept one another and with one accord and one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

please note that i wasn't accusing anyone here of doing this, it was just something that i was reminded of for myself and i thought i'd share this perspective here.