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Thread: The Joy of the Lord?

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    Edward429451 is on a distinguished road
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    The Joy of the Lord?

    Hello, dunno if this is in the right forum or not. Got a question. Newbie, babe in the Lord here. Seeking the truth.

    OK, I was introduced to the Lord years ago, accepted him, got babtised, read a lot etc., backslid before much growth occured. Found the Lord again a few years ago. Re-prayed the sinners prayer and then it went weird on me if thats a good way to say it. I had no big dramatic experiance, no instant newness, no fire for god kindled, but started reading and praying and occasionally going to church. Even paying tithes as much as reasonably possibe without creating strife between me & my wife.

    I'm just about always mindful of the Lord and his word. I can sense the change within my heart and being and do not dwell on the flesh as I used too. I am able to stop some sinful thoughts from taking root in my conciousness but am in no wise perfect, I continue to sin. As paul said, 'That I would do, I do not and that I wouldnt do, that I do". I figure I'm in transition of the heart and will never be free of carnality until I die or the Lord comes. I accept that and realize there are some things that I just dont understand and that time and the Lords will will reveal to me.

    The problem is that I do not seem to have received the joy of the Lord. I understand that my forgiveness has been bought and paid for by the blood of Christ, past, present and future, and try not to get depressed about sinning, even though I do. I seem to be slipping into deeper depression over my sins both present and past. I absolutely Hate my sins and pretty much have concluded that it would have been better if I had never been born. I realize this is the wrong way to think and that I am forgiven. I believe Jesus died on the cross wholeheartedly and have prayed for wisdom and understanding and I got at least wisdom to some extent because I have much fear of the Lord. Much fear. Understanding to some extent must be there because I flee from sinning and evil where I used to embrace it.

    I read stuff like: "If you aren't at least as rightous as the pharisees, you'll not make it into the kingdom of God" and "The lukewarm will be spewed from my mouth" and stuff like that and can't help but feel like thats me. Oh, me of little faith?

    Aren't I supposed to feel relief and joy to be seeking the Lord? What am I missing? I have no joy in my life. It says in scripture that if satan steals your joy then you have lost, or something to that effect? No joy. Lots of fear and trembling though. Now that I am cognizant of the Lord in my life, I feel useless as a Christian b/c I dont seem to have any recognizable fruits, and yet, as an earthly being, father, husband etc, useless and unfruitful also. I see so much deception and sin all around me in the world, I cant even take joy from going out and doing things that were fun family things as before. I feel stuck in the middle being of no good to either side, and no joy whatsoever. I feel like if I jump back into the world and family stuff, I'm certainly dead. I feel like if I continue seeking the Lord, I may wind up hearing "I am the Lord, I will do what I will with what is mine, and give mercy to whom I choose" etc.. Paraphrased of course, my memory isn't what it used to be. I believe his Grace is sufficiant for me, but he IS the Lord and Will do what he will. Why am I missing the joy?

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    Mean, Harsh, and Arrogant Administrator Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft's Avatar
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    OK, I was introduced to the Lord years ago, accepted him, got babtised, read a lot etc., backslid before much growth occured. Found the Lord again a few years ago. Re-prayed the sinners prayer and then it went weird on me if thats a good way to say it. I had no big dramatic experiance, no instant newness, no fire for god kindled, but started reading and praying and occasionally going to church. Even paying tithes as much as reasonably possibe without creating strife between me & my wife.
    Dear Edward,

    Thanks for posting! I don't know if I will be able to help you, but I know you're looking for some help otherwise you wouldn't have posted here. What I'm about to tell you is probably going to surprise you, and may be not even what you want to hear. However, I think if you embrace what I tell you, I do believe God will grant you that joy you've been seeking.

    First of all, I feel bad for you because you've obviously been fed lies about the Christian faith. Your concept of God is skewed from what is actually portrayed in the Bible... And just about everything you think about Christianity is wrong. Yeah, that's right, you've believed a lie, and you came to the right place because I'm going to share with you the truth - truth that WILL bring you much joy.

    Where to start - Oh yeah, you mentioned you prayed the sinner's prayer and you "accepted" Christ. Your story sounds a lot like mine; and a few years ago I used to think the same way you do. Fortunately God was kind enough to heap His joy on me, and He did this by correcting how I think about Him. In fact, my beliefs changed so much that I wasn't even a Christian until a few years ago! You may discover the same thing about yourself if God reveals these truths to you.

    You mentioned you "read a lot" when you were introduced to the Lord. Well, that was the key for me, and I think if you stay on this website and read the articles I point you to, you may be shown the truth.

    What do you know about the doctrines of sovereign grace? I have an idea you aren't familiar with them. If you aren't, I would suggest you read a few articles on this website. They may hit you like a ton of bricks; they may make you angry; or they just be used by God to give you that joy in Him!

    The first article I recommend is this one: What We Believe About the Five Points of Calvinism

    Please do read that article, come back and post your questions or comments and I'll be happy to continue our discussion.

    Hoping and Praying for You,
    Brandan

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    Edward429451 is on a distinguished road
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    I'm still here. I've just been busy with work and have'nt finished digesting the read you reccommended. I'll be back when I get enough time to respond properly.

    What was I lied to about?

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    Edward429451 is on a distinguished road
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    The unconditionality of God's electing grace is stressed again in Romans 9:15-16, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. So it depends not upon man's will or exertion, but upon God's mercy."

    So if I have been predestined thru election, I hear the calling in my heart, Assuming I'm not somehow deceiving myself, then my lack of joy is simply an anxious presupposition of my flesh? A putting of my will before the Lords? I should thank and praise the Lord to be worthy of this germination period of my heart. I know not what his will is for me, but I should be patient, continue to pray and read his word, and in the Lords time my life will become fruitful unto him and his glory.

    This must be true for I got from the essays that non believers have no calling or urge to seek God, no election, correct?

    Thats encouraging for me and sorrowful for the thought of non-believers, which have no chance, through non election and no irresistable grace. This would seem to ring true in light of Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much grief, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow. (New KJV)

    Pray for me. That I be not deceived, and overcome in Christ.

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    Edward429451 is on a distinguished road
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    Apparently its all relative and simple. Seek God first and all these things will be added unto you. I'm seekin God through the scriptures more and it seems that the more I read the word of God, the more I want to read and the more I understand how it all comes together.

    The two things which always crop up about almost any problem or question, always point towards more reading of the word, and more prayer. Simple, and yet, out of reach of answers and help if one does not do it.

    I'm still depressed, but on the lighter side, at least I'm not in Job's position. It could be worse for me. Blessed be the name of the most high God that I'm still here to wonder, and haven't been given over to a reprobate mind or spirit. Evidence that God is working in my life and on my heart & spirit.

    I feel like an infant.

  6. #6
    Mean, Harsh, and Arrogant Administrator Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft's Avatar
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    Amen Edward, We will pray for you...

    Also you are right about sorrow. Christianity isn't about happiness, but about sorrow. Here's a good article about that...

    http://www.5solas.org/media.php?id=463
    Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!

    "Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.

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    Edward429451 is on a distinguished road
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    The plain truth is that all of that must sink into oblivion, to become the least important things, and one's relationship to God become the one issue. Christ did not die to make men happy, but holy. If a person has a sin problem, then the gospel has a message for him.
    I resemble that remark!

    Christ's words: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."
    That would be like 'the tongue is sharper than a two edged sword'? Could this be why me & my wife get along wonderfully all the time, all the way up until I mention God?
    She used to go to church without me. Now she stopped going and pretty much refuses to go with me, now that I'm seeking the Lord again. I thought it was the tithes issue being materialistic but she still wont go with me now even if I say we wont give anything. It can get heated real quick, so I just back down to keep the peace. I wind up not going. I'd feel better and go faster if she went with me. Is there a way to get her to go to church with me amicably, or should I just go anyway to set an example and pray for her to follow? I feel like we're under spiritual attack, which is probably evidence that I'm on the right track!

    Am I on the right board for these kind of questions? I read some of your guys posts and discussions, and you all sound like professors. Much of the time I have no clue of what you're talking about. Its way above me at this point. I don't want to disrupt the continuity of your threads with what is likely inane thoughts and questions. Coming here kind of makes me feel like I'm a kindergardner walking into an advanced Physics class, so to speak.

  8. #8
    Mean, Harsh, and Arrogant Administrator Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft is just really nice Brandan Kraft's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Edward429451
    I resemble that remark!

    That would be like 'the tongue is sharper than a two edged sword'? Could this be why me & my wife get along wonderfully all the time, all the way up until I mention God?
    Yes, most definitely... The bible indicates that sinners hate God and will not seek after Him.

    She used to go to church without me. Now she stopped going and pretty much refuses to go with me, now that I'm seeking the Lord again. I thought it was the tithes issue being materialistic but she still wont go with me now even if I say we wont give anything. It can get heated real quick, so I just back down to keep the peace. I wind up not going. I'd feel better and go faster if she went with me. Is there a way to get her to go to church with me amicably, or should I just go anyway to set an example and pray for her to follow? I feel like we're under spiritual attack, which is probably evidence that I'm on the right track!
    My advice is to do what is right. Your primary commitment is to the Lord, not to your wife. Your wife is very important, but as a Christian, you look to Christ first. God may very well use your example to convert your wife. Taking a hard line is sometimes the most loving thing you can do.

    Am I on the right board for these kind of questions? I read some of your guys posts and discussions, and you all sound like professors. Much of the time I have no clue of what you're talking about. Its way above me at this point. I don't want to disrupt the continuity of your threads with what is likely inane thoughts and questions. Coming here kind of makes me feel like I'm a kindergardner walking into an advanced Physics class, so to speak.
    Don't feel shy! We do tend to get carried away and forget there are many Christians that visit us that don't understand our jargon. We consider ourselves to be the least of all the saints and are glad to have you visit our forum. I may in fact move this thread to the christian theology forum. Thanks for posting Edward.

    Your servant,
    Brandan
    Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!

    "Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.

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    Edward429451 is on a distinguished road
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    My advice is to do what is right. Your primary commitment is to the Lord, not to your wife. Your wife is very important, but as a Christian, you look to Christ first. God may very well use your example to convert your wife. Taking a hard line is sometimes the most loving thing you can do.
    I think I knew that was coming. Problem is, she's my first wife and we get along better now than 18 yrs ago when we first met. She's a wonderful women with much of the qualities of a Proverbs 31 wife. I'd hate to lose her. I love her very much. I wouldn't want to walk away from her like Pilgrim did in Bunyans book. But I also realize the gravity of the situation concerning the Lord also, so its distressing for me to think about.

    Pilgrims Progress is an awesome book! It just walked up on my doorstep one day with a travelling salesman. I instantly knew I had to have it for some reason, and could scarcely put it down until finished. Almost required reading I think.

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