The well-meant offer and the two will theory

[thepaulinator]

I have a question after reading a certain verse from scripture.

I have come to understand that most of you believe that we cannot do anything that is NOT the will of God...correct? Even if I sin, it is still doing the will of God, right? So everyone is doing the will of the father, regardless of their sinful life. How does that fit with this...

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

If everyone is doing the will of the father, would this mean that everyone is going to enter heaven? Please, any answer will be appreciated.

[disciple]

I have a question after reading a certain verse from scripture.

I have come to understand that most of you believe that we cannot do anything that is NOT the will of God...correct? Even if I sin, it is still doing the will of God, right? So everyone is doing the will of the father, regardless of their sinful life. How does that fit with this...

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter."

If everyone is doing the will of the father, would this mean that everyone is going to enter heaven? Please, any answer will be appreciated.

that is somewhat of a caricature (or just a complete misunderstanding of different nuances of the word). what we have here is different nuances or meanings of the word will. it is not the will of God that we sin, in the sense that it does not please Him that anyone sins (e.g., it is against His revealed will or law). on the other hand, in order for anyone to sin, God must will that it happen, as He is the sovereign through whose hands all things that ever occur must come (for if He did not will it, it would/could not happen). for example, even the most heinous act in history is said to be planned (i.e., willed) by God:

Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know 23 this Man delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

Acts 4:27 "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.

we get similar information from the stories of job, joseph, and the concept/principle is all over in the prophets (esp. Isaiah and Daniel). everything that ever occurs must go through the hands of God (i.e., nothing can happen that God must not either decree or allow, however one understands these particular terms; e.g., i think it is clear from the story of Job that God allowed Satan to test Job).

i think that your question reveals that you are confusing this usage/sense of will with the usage/sense of will that refers to His delight, pleasure, law, etc. that concept of will is found in such passages as the one you mentioned as well as others:

Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

Eph 6:6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart.

1 Thess 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality;

Heb 10:36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.

1 Pet 2:15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.

1 Pet 4:2 so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for the lusts of men, but for the will of God...6 For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to the will of God.

1 Jn 2:17 The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

so hopefully it is clear that one sense refers to what God decrees or allows/permits (i.e., everything) and the other sense refers to what pleases God or what His law requires. do you understand the distinction? one is universal in scope and the other is very specific. one always occurs and the other only occurs when His children obey Him. but they must be distinguished if we are to make any progress in communication and have mutual understanding in this area.

[thepaulinator]

To be honest, I made a generalization from the words of "Darth Gill", when he said. "God wills man to sin, but they beak his commandments", or something to that affect.

everything that ever occurs must go through the hands of God (i.e., nothing can happen that God must not either decree or allow, however one understands these particular terms; e.g., i think it is clear from the story of Job that God allowed Satan to test Job).

I agree with this, especially in that God allows these things to happen, rather than actually making them happen, like your example with Job. But I'm not so sure that is what most of the posters on this board would say, of course, I could be wrong.

[disciple]

To be honest, I made a generalization from the words of "Darth Gill", when he said. "God wills man to sin, but they beak his commandments", or something to that affect.

so would you say that you purposely misrepresented him or do you think he believes that God delights in the sin of man? perhaps you could provide the specific quote and ask brandan what he actually meant. that may be a method more conducive to creating an irenic environment.

I agree with this, especially in that God allows these things to happen, rather than actually making them happen, like your example with Job. But I'm not so sure that is what most of the posters on this board would say, of course, I could be wrong.

perhaps many of the hard supra-lapsarians here might balk at the term allow but i'm sure they would admit to circumstances such as those described in the story of job's temptation by satan (e.g., understanding that God did not coerce or force satan to do what he did though God did potentially create satan to do this very thing). and personally, i see little distinction between an active decree (making something happen, actively causing something, forcing something, etc.) because, in the end, everything must go through the hands of God (i.e., nothing happens except it be willed by Him in whatever way it is willed). if this were not true, then God would not be sovereign. this is the logical/philosophical argument but it is butressed all over with Scripture (if you want the specific texts that speak to this, i can provide). so whether it be actively willed or somehow passively allowed (but even here God is not actually passive), they are both willed by God to come to pass. if it were not, then it would not come to pass. do you understand what i'm saying here?