John Piper's Perversion of the Gospel

[Brandan Kraft]

This comes from his article: What We Believe about the Five Points of Calvinism - http://www.desiringgod.org/library/t...ace/tulip.html

This teaching on Justification by Piper is the reason I can no longer endorse him as a teacher. This teaching takes our eyes off of the perfect atonement made by Christ, and puts our eyes back onto our works. This is very similar in my opinion to the teaching of NT Wright… It’s apparent to me that Daniel Fuller’s influence on Piper seems to be shining through in the following statement… Apparently Piper still holds to this view of justification because he has not pulled the paper from his website. Ironically, I have not seen anyone call Piper on the carpet over his understanding of justification stated in this paper.

God justifies us on the first genuine act of saving faith, but in doing so he has a view to all subsequent acts of faith contained, as it were, like a seed in that first act.

What we are trying to do here is own up to the teaching of Romans 5:1, for example, that teaches that we are already justified before God. God does not wait to the end of our lives in order to declare us righteous. In fact, we would not be able to have the assurance and freedom in order to live out the radical demands of Christ unless we could be confident that because of our faith we already stand righteous before him.

Nevertheless, we must also own up to the fact that our final salvation is made contingent upon the subsequent obedience which comes from faith. The way these two truths fit together is that we are justified on the basis of our first act of faith because God sees in it (like he can see the tree in an acorn) the embryo of a life of faith. [I have to interject my comments here because this bugs me too much . NO NO NO NO NO!!! EMPHATICALLY I SAY NO with ALL MY BEING!!! God justifies us not because He sees in us a life of obedience but because He sees the imputed righteousness of Christ! Our life of obedience could NEVER measure up to the perfect STANDARD which God requires. This is a perversion of the gospel in my opinion] This is why those who do not lead a life of faith with its inevitable obedience simply bear witness to the fact that their first act of faith was not genuine.

The textual support for this is that Romans 4:3 cites Genesis 15:6 as the point where Abraham was justified by God. This is a reference to an act of faith early in Abraham's career. Romans 4:l9-22, however, refers to an experience of Abraham many years later (when he was 100 years old, see Genesis 21:5,12) and says that because of the faith of this experience Abraham was reckoned righteous. In other words, it seems that the faith which justified Abraham is not merely his first act of faith but the faith which gave rise to acts of obedience later in his life. (The same thing could be shown from James 2:21-24 in its reference to a still later act in Abraham's life, namely, the offering of his son, Isaac, in Genesis 22.) The way we put together these crucial threads of Biblical truth is by saying that we are indeed justified on the basis of our first act of faith but not without reference to all the subsequent acts of faith which give rise to the obedience that God demands.

[Tumbleweed]

This is sad indeed:
"Nevertheless, we must also own up to the fact that our final salvation is made contingent upon the subsequent obedience which comes from faith."
It is unembellished Catholicism, teaching that the grace of God is that which helps us save ourselves.

Like many others I suspect, I find myself increasingly vehement in asserting the Doctrine of Perseverance as I see with tears so many men whom I once trusted giving ground to Romanism and betraying those gave their lives warring against it.
Even so, come Lord Jesus.

[paulschafer]

Brandon,
Before you cast him away, have you emailed John Piper or any of their elders or assitant pastors at Bethelhem Baptist to clarify what they (corporately) stand for, what Piper meant? You should have done this before you posted this on your forum, otherwise non-piperites or non-bethelhemites will jump to conclusions, such as above.

Your friend,

Paul Schafer

[Brandan Kraft]

I'm actually in the process of writing Piper. I've been researching his other works, and I know where he stands. I've read their statement of faith concerning justification, and it appears to be great! However, I fear Piper has bought into paradox theology which allows him to declare truth and falsehood and allow them both to stand as truth in his mind. I however want to get a clarification from him on this statement. Future Grace is also riddled with errors on justification... See attached document.

[paulschafer]

But can you remove your topic and posts until after you have spoken with him or his staff an elders on this? Because of the seriousness of what you are saying, you need to do this one-on-one (ie chuch discipline), and 1st Timothy warns us making accusations towards elders that are not done right (ie church discipline). Because of this, and not to give impressions whether right or wrong, whether good or bad, to other christians. We don't need more judgmental christians out there, especially ignorant ones who would add fuel to their fire.

Paul

[Brandan Kraft]

Here is the e-mail I wrote Piper.

Dear John,

Recently it has come to my attention that your website contains an article that appears to teach justification by works. Now I know that you have publicly stated and even written a book that affirms the imputation of Christ’s righteousness. However, I would like it if you would clarify for me these paragraphs from your article, What We Believe about the Five Points of Calvinism at http://www.desiringgod.org/library/t...ace/tulip.html.

In this article you wrote the following:

God justifies us on the first genuine act of saving faith, but in doing so he has a view to all subsequent acts of faith contained, as it were, like a seed in that first act.

What we are trying to do here is own up to the teaching of Romans 5:1, for example, that teaches that we are already justified before God. God does not wait to the end of our lives in order to declare us righteous. In fact, we would not be able to have the assurance and freedom in order to live out the radical demands of Christ unless we could be confident that because of our faith we already stand righteous before him.

Nevertheless, we must also own up to the fact that our final salvation is made contingent upon the subsequent obedience which comes from faith. The way these two truths fit together is that we are justified on the basis of our first act of faith because God sees in it (like he can see the tree in an acorn) the embryo of a life of faith. This is why those who do not lead a life of faith with its inevitable obedience simply bear witness to the fact that their first act of faith was not genuine.

The textual support for this is that Romans 4:3 cites Genesis 15:6 as the point where Abraham was justified by God. This is a reference to an act of faith early in Abraham's career. Romans 4:l9-22, however, refers to an experience of Abraham many years later (when he was 100 years old, see Genesis 21:5,12) and says that because of the faith of this experience Abraham was reckoned righteous. In other words, it seems that the faith which justified Abraham is not merely his first act of faith but the faith which gave rise to acts of obedience later in his life. (The same thing could be shown from James 2:21-24 in its reference to a still later act in Abraham's life, namely, the offering of his son, Isaac, in Genesis 22.) The way we put together these crucial threads of Biblical truth is by saying that we are indeed justified on the basis of our first act of faith but not without reference to all the subsequent acts of faith which give rise to the obedience that God demands.

Since writing your book on the imputation of Christ’s righteousness, can you still confirm that men are justified by “obedience which comes from faith?” Do you still believe God justifies us by seeing in our first act of faith the life of faith instead of Christ’s imputed righteousness?

I’m the webmaster of a Sovereign Grace Baptist website and believe that your teaching on justification contained in this article is unbiblical. If I have misunderstood you, I would appreciate your response.

Basically, I would like it if you would answer this question: Does our “obedience which comes from faith” have anything to do with the justification/salvation of men?

Sincerely,
Brandan Kraft – St. Louis, MO

[Brandan Kraft]

But can you remove your topic and posts until after you have spoken with him or his staff an elders on this? Because of the seriousness of what you are saying, you need to do this one-on-one (ie chuch discipline), and 1st Timothy warns us making accusations towards elders that are not done right (ie church discipline). Because of this, and not to give impressions whether right or wrong, whether good or bad, to other christians. We don't need more judgmental christians out there, especially ignorant ones who would add fuel to their fire.

Paul

Paul, Piper's paper is public. I'm simply quoting it. Is this quote a perversion of the gospel or not? I say let it stand on it's own and let Piper clear it up.

[paulschafer]

Paul, Piper's paper is public. I'm simply quoting it. Is this quote a perversion of the gospel or not? I say let it stand on it's own and let Piper clear it up.

1st point, his paper is public, but matt.18 chuch discipline is first private.
2nd point, 1Ti 5:19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses.
1Ti 5:20 Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful {of sinning.}
1Ti 5:21 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of {His} chosen angels, to maintain these {principles} without bias, doing nothing in a {spirit of} partiality.
1Ti 5:22 Do not lay hands upon anyone {too} hastily and thereby share {responsibility for} the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.

What are your witnesses?
Watch your hastyness!

Whether it's a pervesion of the gospel, I dont know, I'm uneducated in this perversion. With regards to the gospel, how do you see the "GOSPEL"?

Cheers!
Paul

[Brandan Kraft]

Paul,

I understand your zeal to protect your teachers that you highly esteem. But remember that this text by Piper is PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE. I am not bringing any accusations against Piper, he is accusing HIMSELF of perverting the gospel of GRACE ALONE by stating that our "salvation is contingent upon the SUBSEQUENT OBEDIENCE which comes from faith!" Now I don't know about you, but if I didn't know who wrote it, I'd say that person was a Roman Catholic. Yet I'm astonished probably as much as you to see that the author is John Piper. This isn't a personal attack on Piper, just a personal attack on this message of the false gospel. If Piper recants this, then I expect him to pull the article and say that it was a mistake. If not, then I'll blow the trumpet far and wide to all that I meet. We cannot allow for someone like Piper to deceive many through the teachings of Sovereign Grace, and then slip in works based justification so cleverly.

Brandan

[PILGRIM313]

I wonder if it is not possible, that Piper is making the relationship between 'true' faith and 'works' as James did....'Faith without works is dead'....I read the snippet you posted and granted his choice of words could have been different, but I don't come away reading such condemnation. His point on Abraham is well taken, he was 'justified' by God previously, and then the 'works' followed when he 'obeyed' without question.....Faith and works do work together and not in a 'salvation' aspect. I wonder sometimes as disciple has said on another thread, if we don't love to jump in and condemn before we truly understand the other persons statements.
Just a thought from 'granny'.....
Pilgrim

[Brandan Kraft]

Disciple and Carole,

You are both wrong. Piper was the man that introduced me to the Doctrines of Grace. It was his works that were originally used by God to rescue me from the cold world of Arminianism. So I have a lot of respect for this man. However, that does not mean he is above criticism. Piper here is essentially saying that our salvation is dependent upon works. This isn't the only place he's done it, and I'm using this article as an example. Piper will of course deny that our salvation is dependent on works as he says "obedience which comes from faith" is not works. But he still says that we are justified by "obedience which comes from faith." Call it whatever you want, I say it's works and I cannot allow him to do this. You may think I'm being overly critical of him because I think I'm "above him" and am "proud." Well, that's not true either. For the last 25+ years there has been a major justification controversy with Normon Shepherd and his cronies out of the Westminster Theological Seminary. Lately, the new perspective on Paul has added fuel to the fire, and the doctrine of justification by faith alone is clearly under attack. John Reisinger recently wrote a series of articles condemning the new perspective. Piper, a seasoned theologian should realize that he needs to be extremely careful when writing anything about justification these days. Piper knew full well what he was writing here, and to say that it's just a blunder or a slip of the pen is to give the man to little credit.

Someone in chat told me it's probable that Piper has changed his views. I have his book, "Counted Righteos in Christ", and it is an awesome book that I can heartily recommend. However, his book, "Future Grace" is still floating around out there, and this friend of mine suggested that Piper probably no longer agreed with Future Grace but couldn't pull it from the system as that would mean angering his publishers. Well if that's the case, then I'm doing Piper a favor by putting a lot of pressure on him to recant what he's said.

Piper has perverted the gospel in his statement above. I will make no attempt to defend him no matter how much I have respected him in the past. I am not condemning Piper as a heretic. His views on justification in his statement of faith and his current books are orthodox. However, he has some older works still floating around that are teaching this erronious doctrine of justification. I see myself as doing him GOOD by publishing his errors in the hopes that he will have the humility and courage to publicly recant and repent of his mistakes and misleading literature.

I have e-mailed him, and have received no response. If I do not hear anything from him in a week, I will try another means of contacting him. If I get no response, I will take it to some of my bigger "theologian" friends, and I will start a campaign against Piper to recant his erronious works on justification. If he fails to recant, then I will have to conclude that he is a false teacher and I will warn as many as my friends to stay away from Piper's deceptive and perverted gospel. We cannot, I repeat, cannot allow works or (obedience which comes from faith) to be associated with justification in any way.

Brandan

[Brandan Kraft]

Compare Piper's understanding of justification in the article he has written to the understanding of justification which comes originally from Present Truth magazine.

From the article:

God has never changed his mind. He has always required perfect obedience to his Law. And when he looked out at an utterly desperate world, he came himself - God the Son in a donkey's feedbox; God the Son allowing the Palestinian dust to sift through his toes as he fulfilled his own Law on our behalf. Faith acknowledges the Law because Jesus acknowledged the Law. Faith always chooses the perfect, Law-conforming life of Jesus as the only basis for acceptance with God. Saving faith never chooses our own obedience as a condition of our acceptance with God. [emphasis by Dr. Gill]

[Skeuos Eleos]

Hi Brandan,

Do you know which of the two articles he wrote first? i.e. which way does he appear to be shifting?

Martin

[Brandan Kraft]

If Piper is indeed drifting toward a particular direction, he does appear to be drifting toward the imputation of Christ's righteousness as the grounds of our justification. Future Grace is an older work than Counted Righteous in Christ.

[Brandan Kraft]

The meeting house at Carter Lane was opened on October 9, 1757. John Gill, my favorite modern day theologian preached from Exodus 20:24. In the course of his message he made the the following comments.

As we have now opened a new place of worship, we enter upon it, recording the name of the Lord by preaching the doctrines of the grace of God, and of free and full salvation alone by Jesus Christ; and by the administration of gospel ordinances, as they have been delivered to us. What doctrines may be taught in this place after I am gone is not for me to know; but as for my own part, I am at a point; I am determined, and have been long ago, what to make the subject of my ministry. It is upwards of forty years since I entered into the arduous work; and the first sermon I ever preached was from those words of the apostle, 'For I am determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified:' and through the grace of God I have been enabled, in some good measure, to abide by the same resolution hitherto, as many of you here are my witnesses; and, I hope, through divine assistance, I ever shall, as long as I am in this tabernacle, and engaged in such a work. I am not afraid of the reproaches of man; I have been inured to these, from my youth upwards; none of these things move me.

As I press on to proclaim only Christ, and Him crucified, since Dr. Piper has not answered my e-mail, I will continue to seek to contact Piper so that he recants and repents of this false gospel message.

Brandan

[Alan Stevens]

Hi

I may be wrong but i don't believe the passage that is quoted is actually saying that we are Justified by works

Piper wrote
'Nevertheless, we must also own up to the fact that our final salvation is made contingent upon the subsequent obedience which comes from faith. The way these two truths fit together is that we are justified on the basis of our first act of faith because God sees in it (like he can see the tree in an acorn) the embryo of a life of faith. This is why those who do not lead a life of faith with its inevitable obedience simply bear witness to the fact that their first act of faith was not genuine.'

what Piper is talking about here is not the nature of our Justification but the nature of saving faith. Look at the title:

'God justifies us on the first genuine act of saving faith, but in doing so he has a view to all subsequent acts of faith contained, as it were, like a seed in that first act.'

We are Jusified by faith not works, but what is the nature of that faith, that is the question?

In Future Grace page 26 Piper writes

'My point in this book is that FAITH, which is the occassion of justification, is the same faith through which scantifying power comes to the justified sinner.

Jonathan Edwards writes ' Perserverance in faith is, in one sense,, the condition of justification; that is, the promise of acceptance is made only to a perservering sort of faith, and the proper evidence of its being that sort is its actual perserverance.

Piper continues - Thus it is proper to speak of the moral effectiveness of justifying faith not merely because it brings us into right standing with God at the first moment of its exercise, but also because it is a perservering sort of faith, whose effectiveness resides also in its daily embrace of all that God is for us in Jesus.

That cannot be construde as Justification by works, it is clearly Justification by faith, with the nature of that faith being a perservering faith.

Therefore how do we obey God in our daily walk, by faith !

Faith piper cocludes is ' being satisfied with all that God is ( and promises to be) for us in Jesus. and 'Justfying faith embraces the finished work of Christs atontement, in the sense that it rests in all the atonement means for our past, present and future. (page 27)

Present truth said
Saving faith never chooses our own obedience as a condition of our acceptance with God.

This is true , but it is not a matter of obediece, it is a essense of peserverance. To persevere means a reliance on the grace and power of God not upon our own works. Saving Faith chooses the perfect finished work of christ as it's basis and on that foundation be can be assured that we will perserverve until the end.

Obediebce is inevitable not because we do it, but because of the work of Christ within us and our right standing with God. By faith not works.

Cheers

alan

[Brandan Kraft]

Alan, do you believe our justification is based on our faith? That is, is our justification made contingent on saving faith?

[Alan Stevens]

Hi

I believe faith is the 'Instument' through which justification is given to us,

It's not an activity that earns merit or favour with God, we are justifed solely because of the merits of Christs work.

Faith is you like is the one attitude of heart that is the exact opposite of depending on ourselves.

[Brandan Kraft]

Hi

I believe faith is the 'Instument' through which justification is given to us,

It's not an activity that earns merit or favour with God, we are justifed solely because of the merits of Christs work.

Faith is you like is the one attitude of heart that is the exact opposite of depending on ourselves.

Good! I'm glad we agree on this! Now what exactly is faith? Is it simply belief - that is assent to the propositions of the Gospel? If faith is simply assent to the propositions of the gospel message, then how can we describe it's nature?

The Apostles Creed says the following:

http://www.5solas.org/media.php?id=17

Apostles' Creed

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:

2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:

3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:

4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:

5. The third day he rose again from the dead:

6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:

7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:

8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:

9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:

10. The forgiveness of sins:

1l. The resurrection of the body:

12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

If you believe the gospel, then you would be justified right? It is that simple isn't it? Granted the Gospel contains more than this creed, but these truths are found in the Gospel.

If faith is something more than what I've just described, that is, if it includes obedience then are we talking about two different things?

Second, Piper clearly said our "salvation is made contingent on our obedience." What you've posted makes absolutely no sense to me. It is very confusing! So far, it has not helped me to reconcile Piper's statement with the teaching of Scripture.

Brandan

[paulschafer]

Brandan,
Your statement really bugs me too. I read that article. What We Believe About the Five Points of Calvinism. In regrards to the Perseverance of the Saints, his statement makes sense. The whole idea of P of the S is all about our santicifcation process after our intial first salvation and then ends at the final salvation which is being in his presence when we are dead or raptured. Faith produces obediance falls under the umbrella of imputed righteousness in Christ. Piper's statement is not contrary to Justification by faith alone and it not contrary to sanctification by faith in the Holy Spirit.. Piper's quote one paragraph below yours. This is why those who do not lead a life of faith with its inevitable obedience simply bear witness to the fact that their first act of faith was not genuine. Our faith produces obediance is a witness of the fact that we were already imputed with rightouesness of Christ and were justifed by faith alone.

It's a good thing that Piper hasn't responded to ya!
Paul