The Ultimate "Anti-Duty-Faith" Thread

[Robert R. Higby]

Eileen has stated:
There is not a single poster here who believes in salvation by works, not a single one as far as I can tell in my reading.

Charles has explained himself countless times, duty in this use does not imply a work, it is an accountability.

So this is an arguement about a word and what that word might or might not imply to the hearer. The other point of the arguement is whether you believe that God holds all men accountable to repent and believe (leaving out the word duty).

Anathema: Now here is a word that I had to go look up in the dictionary because it is not a word I use, although I know it is used in scripture, I was rather dumb about that word. I would call the gospel of salvation by works a damned lie, spread about by the father of lies, and lo an behold it means the same thing. "A damning of something". So even though I didn't know what the word anathema meant I still knew that works salvation is a lie.

My two very simple statements remain:

God can and does call all men to repent and believe and will hold them accountable while remaining merciful and just.

God can and does use whatever scripture or preacher HE will to effect the internal call of the elect and to awaken them to the Gospel, which we know is Christ.

Well, like Eileen, I might wish that the word 'duty' could be left out because it is deceptive semantics in my judgment. Nonetheless, I don't see the point of continuing this discussion on the basis of the terms we have defined. There is great value in debating issues of true substance, however, I think in this case we have drifted into the wrong type of debate. Not that the issues aren't relevant--it's just that we are not coming to agreement on the definition of terms. Without that no discussion can be of benefit.

[doctr_of_grace]

The Power of a Word: Duty

There is not a single poster here who believes in salvation by works, not a single one as far as I can tell in my reading.

Charles has explained himself countless times, duty in this use does not imply a work, it is an accountability.

So this is an arguement about a word and what that word might or might not imply to the hearer. The other point of the arguement is whether you believe that God holds all men accountable to repent and believe (leaving out the word duty).

Thank you Eileen for REMINDING THESE FOLKS yet again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I believe that a person must believe the 5 points of the Gospel. This is something MOST DEFINATELY granted by God so therefore it is NOT A WORK!!!

Thanks again Eileen. God Bless ... Jan

[doctr_of_grace]

There is great value in debating issues of true substance, however, I think in this case we have drifted into the wrong type of debate. Not that the issues aren't relevant--it's just that we are not coming to agreement on the definition of terms. Without that no discussion can be of benefit.

I agree with this part of Bill's statement. The misrepresentations that I have picked up on are many. I believe that both sides of the debate are guilty of it.

It is interesting though and a true blessing that I am now free from worrying about my own presentation of the "gospel". I try to be as scripturally correct as I am able to be. Before I understood that it is God and God alone that quickens a man's spirit I would wonder if I had done something wrong when the person I was "sharing" with didn't respond in the right way. And yes before I became a Biblical Christian I would "share" the gospel. Now I proclaim it.

I still see that scripture tells me God commands us ALL to repent and believe. This is where the term duty comes from. It really has absolutely nothing to with ability. Not all theological "words" or "terminology" are found directly in scripture so to me that is a weak argument against "duty-faith".

Anyways ... perhaps this horse has now been beaten to death LOL.

Take care and I will continue to read and respond as long as ya'all keep it coming.

May God bless all those that BELONG TO HIM .... Jan

BTW ... because a person believes, embraces and loves the TRUE gospel is NOT a condition for salvation but is most definately a RESULT of salvation.
If you want to call that doctrinal regeneration so be it ... doctrine never regenerated anyone. Doctrine again (like I said a second ago) is result of regeneration.

[Brandan Kraft]

An article by Don Fortner...

CAN SINNERS BE SAVED WITHOUT THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL?

Romans 10:14-17

I recognize the sovereignty of God, and preach it as fully and dogmatically as anyone I have heard or read recently. "Our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased" (Psa. 115:3). Were it his pleasure to do so, he could save his elect by the merits of Christ's righteousness and shed blood and the power of his Spirit without the use of any means whatever. But it is not his pleasure to do so. I hear men say, "God is sovereign. He can save sinners with the use of means, without the use of means, or inspite of the means used." That may be a very logical supposition. And I appreciate the obvious attempt to protect God's sovereignty. But God's sovereignty does not need our protection. And the supposition is false, because it is not according to the Scriptures.

THE FACT IS, GOD DOES NOT SAVE SINNERS APART FROM THE PREACHING OF THE GOSPEL OF HIS FREE AND SOVEREIGN GRACE IN CHRIST. (Read Rom. 1:16-17; I Cor. 1:21-23; Heb. 4:12; James 1:18; I Pet. 1:23-25). And if God does not save men without the preaching of the gospel, then it is obvious that no man can be saved without the preaching of the gospel.

DOES THIS MEAN THAT ALL WHO BELIEVE A FALSE GOSPEL ARE LOST? Certainly it does. Those who trust the helpless god, Jesus, and spirit of free-will, works religion are as ignorant and lost as the naked tribesman who worships his dead, helpless totem-pole.

DOES THIS MEAN THAT I WAS LOST BEFORE I KNEW THE GOSPEL? Of course it does. Men may be sincere in false religion. They may have great, life changing experiences in false religion. But no one is saved in false religion, neither you, nor me, nor our kinsmen, nor our friends. It is the truth, only the truth, that makes sinners free. God does not use religious lies to save his elect. A person may mentally know the truth and not be saved. But no one can be saved who does not know the truth.

WHAT DOES THIS FACT REQUIRE OF US? We must renounce that former, false religion of works and confess Christ in baptism (II Cor. 6:17-18; Rev. 18:4). Then we must devote ourselves and all that we have to the preaching of the gospel, so that men and women may hear, know, believe, and be saved by the gospel.

[whs1]

Ian Potts said:

""Whilst any debate about ‘theology’ can become argumentative and the manner and words used in the debate should be carefully watched, to ensure that all things are done in grace, it is nevertheless right that doctrinal points which are felt to affect the heart of the Gospel should be stood up against. “Duty-faith” is an unbiblical term, which by its very name implies an unholy alliance between works and faith (you could easily call it “Works-faith”) which the Gospel always sets in contrast. Works are of the law, Faith is of the Gospel. The law sets forth man’s duty before God and condemns him utterly. It is a schoolmaster unto Christ (Galatians 3). The Gospel sets forth the good news of Salvation by free grace alone. The Spirit brings this news to sinners, granting them repentance, quickening unto life and giving them the gift of faith, a fruit of the Spirit to believe what Christ has done freely for them by grace. Thus it is the ‘grace of God that BRINGS salvation’. God doesn’t command sinners to save themselves. He saves them. And part of that work of salvation is to give faith to SEE Christ, to BELIEVE Christ, to TRUST in Christ. For ‘saving faith’ is FAR more that just ‘believing’.

Yes, the Gospel, the New Covenant, is utterly contrasted with the law and the Old Covenant. The old, from Sinai, demanded works of man and condemned to death when he failed to render them. The Gospel, from Zion, sets forth the work of God FOR man, gives faith, and brings life, eternal life to chosen sinners, freely by grace. The law is taught outwardly, but the Gospel is revealed inwardly by the Spirit from heaven. The two covenants are completely contrasted, totally different in character, and totally separated (See Galatians 4:21-31).

Let us not try to join together what God has set asunder – grace and works do not mix.""



This could not have been said any better. I agree with this whole-heartedly. God is concerned about Doctrine. In grace, not in wrath however should our discussions be conducted.

I need to learn a lesson.

Bill

[Brandan Kraft]

This was a good discussion. I'm closing the thread and moving it to the forum, "Great Past Discussions."