I believe that Tartarus is more common in mythology.
Hades refers to the realm or place of the dead (whatever that is perceived to be); in the NT it is a place that the righteous in Christ have already been delivered out of (in the present) and where the non-elect await the final resurrection of damnation.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Where are the dead nonelect now?Originally Posted by BillTwisse
The Greek word "Hades" occurs in the NT. It is translated "hell" by many versions, including the KJV. The word "hades" means "unseen". So, in brief it is "the unseen place". The English word "Hell" I have learnt derives from an old English word "helan" or something close sounding. This old English word had the meaning of "unseen". So basically "hell" is a literal translation of "Hades"/"unseen". I do not see "hell" as a wrong rendering of "hades", as long as is kept in mind that "hell" means the same as "hades" - "unseen". In Revelation it then says that ultimately both Hades/Hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. Which fiery lake is "the second death". I do not believe in the concept of thinking of "death" as cessation of existence. In my mind death is primarily a separation and absence of life. As for those humans that ultimately find themselves in the fiery lake their death consists of eternal separation from God as well as absence of the life of God. They exist but are spiritually speaking dead.
Harald
In Revelation it then says that ultimately both Hades/Hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. Which fiery lake is "the second death". I do not believe in the concept of thinking of "death" as cessation of existence. In my mind death is primarily a separation and absence of life. As for those humans that ultimately find themselves in the fiery lake their death consists of eternal separation from God as well as absence of the life of God. They exist but are spiritually speaking dead.
This point of view is simple to understand and reason through. But what is the hermeneutical method that allows me to interpret the Bible like this? It is true that hades--the temporal state of death--will ultimately be swallowed up in and give way to the resurrection of damnation. But where is the 'separation from God' or 'spiritually dead but existing' concept taught as the 'second death' in Revelation or any of the rest of the Bible? I don't see it.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Scott: Where are the dead nonelect now?
In that 'hidden' place or state of temporal judgment awaiting the resurrection of damnation, whatever God has decided that this place or state should consist of. I personally do not think it is important for us to define it clearly, if it is hidden, it is by definition something that God has not revealed the details of to us.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Deut 29:29, (KJV), The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.Scott: Where are the dead nonelect now?
In that 'hidden' place or state of temporal judgment awaiting the resurrection of damnation, whatever God has decided that this place or state should consist of. I personally do not think it is important for us to define it clearly, if it is hidden, it is by definition something that God has not revealed the details of to us.
That works for me. No rebuttle here.
Bob,
Translation #3: The judgment of all who walk in such ways will be multiple afflictions at the hand of all the angels of perdition, everlasting damnation in the wrath of God's furious vengeance, never-ending terror and reproach for all eternity, with a shameful extinction in the fire of Hell's outer darkness. For all their eras, generation by generation, they will know doleful sorrow, bitter evil, and dark happenstance, until their utter destruction with neither remnant nor rescue.
I found it very interesting to read the full discourse before this paragraph. what an account of the creation of mankind, the two spirits of humankind....truth and falsehood.
The judgment above is for those who walk in the spirit of falsehood and I looked up the word perdition.......There will be multiple afflictions at the hand of all the angels of perdition. Perdition means hell.....or the utter loss of a soul so are what follows this sentence the actual afflictions they will suffer at the hand of the angels............in hell?
Do you think these angels are residents of hell? If perdition can mean utter loss of a soul and we know that the Scripture tells us to fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell would the destruction of or utter loss of the soul be the actual end of those afflicted this way?
Just some thoughts as I was reading.
Eileen~
"To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby
The angels of perdition are not the devil's angels; in this context they are the destroying angels of God. In the Hebrew perspective of these scrolls, the devil (Belial) is not in charge of final punishment, God and his messengers (angels) are. The devil does not rule in the habitation of the damned, he is its chief and lowest subject. What is in view in this quotation is the final manifestation of God's wrath, often referred to as 'hell'--but I have given reasons before why I believe that 'hell' is a most inadequate and sinister English term to refer to the final lot of reprobates. Scripture uses many different words for final condemnation and 'hell' has become a slang term in the English. So it is not a good one to describe these realities, especially today.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Hi. I have a question on Reve 20.In Revelation it then says that ultimately both Hades/Hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone. Which fiery lake is "the second death". I do not believe in the concept of thinking of "death" as cessation of existence. In my mind death is primarily a separation and absence of life. As for those humans that ultimately find themselves in the fiery lake their death consists of eternal separation from God as well as absence of the life of God. They exist but are spiritually speaking dead.
This point of view is simple to understand and reason through. But what is the hermeneutical method that allows me to interpret the Bible like this? It is true that hades--the temporal state of death--will ultimately be swallowed up in and give way to the resurrection of damnation. But where is the 'separation from God' or 'spiritually dead but existing' concept taught as the 'second death' in Revelation or any of the rest of the Bible? I don't see it.
It shows the "dead standing" in front of the throne and not shown as being "raised up". Now of course if a literal heaven and earth is passing away, they will be in "outer space" I think. These are judge by works and the "books". What are the "books" the ones standing are being judged by? I thought it might have to do with the laws of moses?.acts 13: 39 "and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
On the other hand, those in the "sea" and "hades" are delivered up and judged by their "works". Is this 2 seperate kinds of resurrections and how does this fit into Daniel 12? I realize this is mostly spiritual and symbolic, but what are the differences between the ones already standing and the other "delivered up"?Thanks and God bless.
reve 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands [watch] over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, [Even] to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament, And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever.
http://newjerusalemministriesboards....splay.php?f=82
"There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"
The books refer to the record of history; i.e., the record of the lives of those who laughed at the gospel OR have hearts that will laugh at the gospel when they are confronted with it for the first time at the judgment.
The scroll sealed with seven seals from earlier in Revelation is the same concept; God's predetermination of historical events ends up being the exact same thing as recorded history.
The 'book of life' is also opened, which is mentioned elsewhere in Revelation as containing the names of those who are predestined to salvation. So those cast into the lake of fire are those whose names are missing from this book; the record of their lives in the 'other' books of recorded history testifies to their certain hatred of Christ and the gospel.
Verse 13 makes it clear that the 'dead' are in a state of resurrection when facing the last judgment.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
reve 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Hi BT. Actually, I was inquiring to the 2 different judements between the ones already standing at the white throne and those being delivered up after that.The books refer to the record of history; i.e., the record of the lives of those who laughed at the gospel OR have hearts that will laugh at the gospel when they are confronted with it for the first time at the judgment.
The scroll sealed with seven seals from earlier in Revelation is the same concept; God's predetermination of historical events ends up being the exact same thing as recorded history.
The 'book of life' is also opened, which is mentioned elsewhere in Revelation as containing the names of those who are predestined to salvation. So those cast into the lake of fire are those whose names are missing from this book; the record of their lives in the 'other' books of recorded history testifies to their certain hatred of Christ and the gospel.
Verse 13 makes it clear that the 'dead' are in a state of resurrection when facing the last judgment.
I have a view on it but can you elaborate more on those 2 events?
I did a write up on the Rich Man and Lazarus and how it can be compared to revelation, the LOF and Jeremiah 17 over here it you want look at it. Thanks and God bless.
Rich man "unveiled", torment in "flames" in Luke 16
http://newjerusalemministriesboards....3180#post13180
"There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"
Perhaps you can elaborate on your presuppositions re: two judgments because I do not see this in the text. There is only one FINAL judgment; in the present time between the advents God's PRE-ADVENT judgment is manifested in the historical division of mankind for or against the gospel.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
reve 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.Hi BT. I will give a view on how I see it in scripture as I really enjoy studying revelation along with the rest of the sacred scriptures.Perhaps you can elaborate on your presuppositions re: two judgments because I do not see this in the text. There is only one FINAL judgment; in the present time between the advents God's PRE-ADVENT judgment is manifested in the historical division of mankind for or against the gospel.
Have you ever noticed Paul never mentioned "hellfire" in his epistles? That was spoken in the gospels in "apocalyptic" language that the "jews" would have understood. Notice Isaiah 28 and Death and Hades. It shows the Precious conerstone coming then vengeance and wrath on them aftwards.That is equivalent of today where those without the spirit of Christ are in a covenant with Death and Hades. Those that do come to Christ, death and hades is "cast into the fire". I could do a lengthy article just on that symbolic happening.Isaiah 28:14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men, Who rule this people who [are] in Jerusalem, 15 Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with Death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves."
As far as those 2 judgements at the white throne, the reason I can see the first one as the 6th seal is because they are shown "standing" not raised. Compare that to this passage in Rev 6.. These I believe are the "living dead" OC jews not sealed by the spirit [blinded by the "veil" of Moses] and why I felt the books might have to do with the Books of Law or Moses. Do you see the similarities? I am doing studies on that book using nothing but Scripture for it to understand the Bible better. It is fascinating study!!. God bless.
http://newjerusalemministriesboards....splay.php?f=82Reve 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
reve 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
Last edited by InChristAlways; 04-24-2005 at 05:41 PM.
"There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"
I might see a loose connection to the Law of Moses with the books; it would take time to elaborate on.
Have you ever noticed Paul never mentioned "hellfire" in his epistles?
I have noticed this for over 30 years; hell-fire is only in the synoptic gospels and in Revelation. This fact has to be taken into account when men are tempted to go too far in making certain views on 'hell' (whether on Hades, Gehenna, or Tarturus) a form of unity. Paul is absolutely clear against universalism though!
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Isaiah 28:14 Therefore hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men, Who rule this people who [are] in Jerusalem, 15 Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with Death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves."Hi BT. Wow. 30yrs? The Lord came into my life June of 2003 and my whole life changed in one day. I am retired now so I spend most of my time studying scriptures and compared to you and others, I am still a 'babe' in Christ LOL.I might see a loose connection to the Law of Moses with the books; it would take time to elaborate on.
Have you ever noticed Paul never mentioned "hellfire" in his epistles?
I have noticed this for over 30 years; hell-fire is only in the synoptic gospels and in Revelation. This fact has to be taken into account when men are tempted to go too far in making certain views on 'hell' (whether on Hades, Gehenna, or Tarturus) a form of unity. Paul is absolutely clear against universalism though!
I believe Ezekiel 22 might be the "hellfire wrath" Jesus and John the Baptist spoke about to the corrupt jewish rulers of Jerusalem. They are shown "cursed" in Malachi 2, so that would mean the curses of Deut 28 would come upon them, correct? Christ became a "curse" for them, so the only way they can remove this is by coming to the Cross of Christ it appears.The jews had no idea the way Jesus was to come [and still don't] and it wasn't to bring a physical earthly kingdom but one where God would dwell with His Elect through the spirit of His Beloved Son, Jesus.Malachi 2:1 "And now, O priests, this commandment is for you. 2 If you will not hear, And if you will not take [it] to heart, To give glory to My name," Says the LORD of hosts, "I will send a curse upon you, And I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have cursed them already, Because you do not take [it] to heart. 3 "Behold, I will rebuke your descendants And spread refuse on your faces, The refuse of your solemn feasts; And [one] will take you away with it.
Thanks for the post and God bless you and yours through our Dear Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ.ezekiel 22:17 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to Me; they [are] all bronze, tin, iron, and lead, in the midst of a furnace; they have become dross from silver. 19 "Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: 'Because you have all become dross, therefore behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 20 '[As men] gather silver, bronze, iron, lead, and tin into the midst of a furnace, to blow fire on it, to melt [it;] so I will gather [you] in My anger and in My fury, and I will leave [you there] and melt you. 21 'Yes, I will gather you and blow on you with the fire of My wrath, and you shall be melted in its midst. 22 'As silver is melted in the midst of a furnace, so shall you be melted in its midst; then you shall know that I, the LORD, have poured out My fury on you.'
"Reve 6:15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
Last edited by InChristAlways; 04-25-2005 at 01:20 PM.
"There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"
Well, I don't want to go to far with this distinction. The Bible is clear on the resurrection of damnation unto shame and everlasting contempt and this we are to preach or announce to mankind in general. If the 'Gehenna hell' metaphor is basically related to Jewish eschatology that is well and good.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Hi BT. I have actually read and studied the bible thru jewish/hebrews eyes. The Bible mainly talks about Israel/Judah and Jerusalem.
I did an article on the Rich man[jews of Judah] and Lazarus.If the jews ever understood this parable and Jeremiah 17, that may help them to believe in Jesus more, don't know. http://www.newjerusalemcommunity.com...an-and-Lazarus
God promised to glorify Himself thru them and to the World. Those that call themselves "jews" are actually "tormented" outside of the Cross to this day and revelation shows both a "Great City" and "people" who's smoke goes up forever.
I believe revelation is "symbolic" of the destruction of the OC Law/Temple and concerns the jews mainly. They are "cursed with a curse" in Malachi and I feel the curses of Deut 28 fell on them.
I know it may be hard to see that, but notice Isaiah 66 where the "corpses" are still laying around after the new "heaven and earth" are made. It is the same event as Ezekiel 39, the Day God Glorifies Himself through Israel and to the world. I don't know what happens after death, or what kind of "punishment" awaits, as I try to see what God and Christ accomplished for us in the Bible, but also if He fulfilled what He promised to the jews, as it is mainly about them, His "Firstborn Nation" correct? God bless.Ezekiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD. 17 " And as for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field: "Assemble yourselves and come; Gather together from all sides to My sacrificial meal Which I am sacrificing for you, A great sacrificial meal on the mountains of Israel, That you may eat fleshMatt 23:36 "Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37 " O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under [her] wings, but you were not willing! 38 "See! Your house is left to you desolate;
Isaiah 66:22 " For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the LORD, "So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass [That] from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD. 24 "And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
Jeremiah 17:1 "The sin of Judah [is] written with a pen of iron; With the point of a diamond [it is] engraved On the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars, 2 While their children remember Their altars and their wooden images By the green trees on the high hills. 3 O My mountain in the field, I will give as plunder your wealth, all your treasures, [And] your high places of sin within all your borders. 4 And you, even yourself, Shall let go of your heritage which I gave you; And I will cause you to serve your enemies In the land which you do not know; For you have kindled a fire in My anger [which] shall burn forever."
"There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"
I know it may be hard to see that, but notice Isaiah 66 where the "corpses" are still laying around after the new "heaven and earth" are made.
This is no different than the prophecy of sacrifices offered 'to MAKE atonement' in the prophesied New Temple era of Ezek. 40-48 and Zech. 12-14. These realities are predicted in the context of both the covenants of law and promise, which means that certain details (those that ended with the law) will never be literally fulfilled in the ORIGINAL and LIMITED scope or context. The saints will not behold dead bodies in the consummatted kingdom, they will behold live bodies of reprobate and suffering souls!
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Hi BT.I know it may be hard to see that, but notice Isaiah 66 where the "corpses" are still laying around after the new "heaven and earth" are made.
This is no different than the prophecy of sacrifices offered 'to MAKE atonement' in the prophesied New Temple era of Ezek. 40-48 and Zech. 12-14. These realities are predicted in the context of both the covenants of law and promise, which means that certain details (those that ended with the law) will never be literally fulfilled in the ORIGINAL and LIMITED scope or context. The saints will not behold dead bodies in the consummatted kingdom, they will behold live bodies of reprobate and suffering souls!
I am in the process of translating/Harmonizing Daniel and it shows the "Time of the End" 5 times [same event], which I believe represents God glorifying Himself through both rebellious Israel and those firstfruit Saints in Christ in the first century [pretty gruesome "stuff"].
Ezekiel 39 appears to also resemble Isaiah 66.
The jews would be able to recognize this, but they fail to believe not only in Jesus but the NT and revelation. In fact, all I see in revelation is rebellous "jews/Israelittes" of Israel, and those Saints in Christ, not non Israel.Ezekiel 39:12 For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. 13 All the people of the land will bury them; and it will redound to their honor on the day that I show my glory, says the Lord God.The jews were indeed thrown in the "oven" of Ezekiel 22 but they fail to see this as against them because of the "veil of Moses/blindness" that covers their eyes today.Genesis 49:1 And Jacob called his sons and said, "Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days:
Book of revelation is one of the most fascinating Devine Books in the Bible and in the world to me. Pretty awsome.
Thanks for the post. God bless.
Zephaniah 1:7 Be silent before the Lord God! For the day of the Lord is at hand; the Lord has prepared a sacrifice and consecrated his guests.
Ezekiel 22:17 And the word of the Lord came to me: 18 "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to me; all of them, silver and bronze and tin and iron and lead in the furnace, have become dross. 19 Therefore thus says the Lord God: Because you have all become dross, therefore, behold, I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem. 20 As men gather silver and bronze and iron and lead and tin into a furnace, to blow the fire upon it in order to melt it; so I will gather you in my anger and in my wrath, and I will put you in and melt you.
http://newjerusalemministriesboards.com/index.php?
Last edited by InChristAlways; 05-09-2005 at 04:32 PM.
"There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"
Jesus says the wages of sin is death, not an eternal life of tormant.
I take it as he says.
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