Emergent = Just like Paul?

[Christ_†_Alone]

I'm posting this same message at a couple of different forums I'm on, for the simple reason that I'd like to get a bit more feedback, I believe it's important:

Over and over again, I get emails and public comments on my blog, telling me I'm confused or misunderstanding the emergent conversation - that all they're doing is what Paul did. Over and over again, I read them quote Paul becoming all things to all men, to save some.
Commendable mission, but I dont buy it.

Browsing through the courses, lectures, and teaching sessions at the upcoming emergent convention http://www.emergentconvention.com/2005/convention_info/ the question I come away with is simply this: "This is just like Paul?"

I would encourage people to read what the emergent convention will be teaching, practicing, and promoting, and ask yourselves the same question.

Maybe I'm dead wrong, and Paul DID employ and endorse all the different things I'm reading about. Maybe I'm the one who's never understood a single thing Paul was ever involved in?

Maybe Paul really did encourage and support women pastors, mysticism, contemplative spirituality, ecumenicism, and engaging all the senses in worship, via mood music, aromatic candles, religious art, strategic lighting, drama, dance and who knows what else.

I dont know... maybe someone here can read the emergent convention site and tell me which things Paul was into, because clearly I'm confused, and have misunderstood.

[dyingman]

Hey all, I'm new here.

About the convention:

It appears that the "Learning Community" is made up of people leading a discourse/discussion through topics that would interest all Christians. You have to understand that some of the terms they use are misunderstood by those outside of the conversation. The whole idea of being "human" among the emergent is a life redeemed by Jesus and lived out the way God intended. In other words, God Jesus doesn't save us to be religious, but to be fully human which means believing, obeying, loving, serving, etc.

The "Seminars" cover a lot of ground. Much of the discussion among the emergent is about the culture and understanding it, and showing how the Gospel relates to it/redeems it/cuts against it. I think this is very good. And yet, much of the conversation (if you read the books/articles/journals, etc) is about the scope of the Gospel. I think that is reflected in the titles and descriptions of the Seminars.

Because the emerging church is a conversation (not a movement) you find pastors and churches from very different perspectives. From Driscoll/Mars Hill in Seattle to Mclaren and man these guys are different theologically. But they also share many of the same concerns about the condition of the church and our mypoic view of the Gospel. It is similar to the SBC in that a Southern Baptist can be hard to categorize. The convention is made up of Arminian churches/leaders, as well as thoroughly Reformed church/leaders and even moderate/liberal churches leaders.

Women pastors? Of course not. And many in this emerging church discussion would agree with my statement. But what role should they have in our churches? Most at this convention would believe the Bible demonstrates a real activity of women in the local body. Of course many in the EC discussion do believe in women pastors.

In my research and dialogue, I have seen many people claiming to be a part of this thing who are agenda driven themselves and have little to offer those looking in from the outside. So I would say, pay less attention to the goofs online (any idiot can throw up a weblog - including myself) and read some of the men writing about this. And when you do read the leaders, you will find - like I do - that some are theologically different from you and off of the Biblical center.

Me? I don't know what you would classify me as. But I am definitely dialoging and reading. And for all the problems I have with Mclaren's theology, he and others like him are raising a lot of good questions that we would all benefit from thinking through.

[GraceAmbassador]

I'm posting this same message at a couple of different forums I'm on, for the simple reason that I'd like to get a bit more feedback, I believe it's important:

Over and over again, I get emails and public comments on my blog, telling me I'm confused or misunderstanding the emergent conversation - that all they're doing is what Paul did. Over and over again, I read them quote Paul becoming all things to all men, to save some.
Commendable mission, but I dont buy it.

Browsing through the courses, lectures, and teaching sessions at the upcoming emergent convention http://www.emergentconvention.com/2005/convention_info/ the question I come away with is simply this: "This is just like Paul?"

I would encourage people to read what the emergent convention will be teaching, practicing, and promoting, and ask yourselves the same question.

Maybe I'm dead wrong, and Paul DID employ and endorse all the different things I'm reading about. Maybe I'm the one who's never understood a single thing Paul was ever involved in?

Maybe Paul really did encourage and support women pastors, mysticism, contemplative spirituality, ecumenicism, and engaging all the senses in worship, via mood music, aromatic candles, religious art, strategic lighting, drama, dance and who knows what else.

I dont know... maybe someone here can read the emergent convention site and tell me which things Paul was into, because clearly I'm confused, and have misunderstood.

Hi Carla!

I spoke with someone from the Reformed church who is a good person and he told me that he attended one of the "emergent" prayer meetings in another state and that it was really a genuine pursuit of helping the community with things such as social work and etc. There was no talk of ecumenism or aromatic candles.

I believe this movement depends of whatever nut is involved... I for one would have no problems with "dancing" as long as it would not involve some "sexual" stuff that I witnessed in some churches under the guise of "praise".
I like to attend some black churches and do the "shuffle" sometimes, but want nothing to do with the "scantly dressed ballerinas" that I saw in some churches... at least in "churches" I don't care .

I agree with you Carla... This people using Paul saying that he made himself all things to all men to justify un-holy unions of "light and darkness" is a stretch beyond limits of what Paul really meant!

Love ya!

Milt

[Robert R. Higby]

Paul goes on to explain that he adapted to the customs and manner of worship of both Jew and Gentile. That is a far cry from any of this seeker-sensitivity stuff today.

Paul in this instance is not commanding us to be like him in the particulars, not necessarily even those of his own day. It is an indicative statement of his experience and not an imperative toward others. I believe that he is only giving the example of his own life as a general, not specific pattern. Our task is to prayerfully ask what the Lord would have do in our day after the fashion of Paul's submission to Christ's gospel, not to try and imitate the specific actions of Paul in a time and culture that no longer exists.

[wildboar]

Perhaps the names say it all. Paul did not create Mars Hill in an attempt to lure the world into the church. Paul went to Mars Hill, Paul condemned the worship which was being done at Mars Hill, and Paul pointed those who were at Mars Hill to the truth.

[GraceAmbassador]

If I may, I compare the faction of the emergent movement that accepts the new age rigmarole with Saul stripping of his royal robes to check with the medium.

We are called to rule with Christ! If we strip ourselves from our royal robes, from our robe of righteousness to check with those who practice ungodliness, even if we are full of good intentions, (the road to hell is paved with good intentions) we will not only be detected as phonies, as the medium detected Saul, but we will commit a grave sin of rebellion against the Lord.

The Bible expressedly establishes rule for worship and also for announcing the Gospel. Furthermore, the Bible establishes very clearly what way we should fellowship with ungodliness.

Another Biblical comparison is that we are called to soar as eagles. David wishes he was like the eagle and those who wait upon the Lord... "shall mount up with wings as eagles..." An eagle lives in the heights. It only swoops down to feed! I believe this faction of the emergent movement is relinquishing all that God speaks of us in the figurative sense so we can understand our position in Him.

Enough preaching... (you can use that Sunday if you wish...)

Milt