Hello all,
Im guessing every one has heard about The Pope passing recently. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts or anything to share.
The_Truth
Hello all,
Im guessing every one has heard about The Pope passing recently. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts or anything to share.
The_Truth
John 3:3~
In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
A leader of one largest anti-christian religions around has passed. They'll just replace him with another. I don't see what the big deal is.
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
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Look at the 'achievements' of this Pope:
1. He was the first Pope in all history to declare an idol of man's idolatrous worship a saint (the Mariolotrous image APAREDICA in Brazil).
2. He was the first Pope in all history to declare that Jews, Muslims, and Christians all worship the same God. He was also the first to worship in a synagogue of Talmudic Judaism and a mosque of demonic Islam--which religion is the greatest enemy of Christ and the gospel that the world has ever known or shall know.
3. He staunchly opposed the just and right actions of governor George Bush, Jr.--who refused to stay the execution of a known murderer--Carla Faye Tucker. In this instance, George obeyed the command of God in Genesis 9 and the Pope fought against God's law. The issue NEVER had anything to do with whether Carla had repented of her sin or not; that is not an issue of government.
4. He supported the ridiculous fantasies of the Fatima sisters and their false prophecies inspired by the devil. A close friend of mine was deceived by this nonsence to the very end of his life--believing that John Paul II was the "last righteous Pope" according to the prophecy of the sisters that the God-ordained Papacy would end after him.
5. He seduced an untold number of Protestants to acknowledge the devilish Papacy as the ultimate possessor of God's oracles of truth and salvation. The "coming home" network is the fruit of his wicked efforts in this regard.
6. Most importantly, in his pernicious doctrine of 'inclusionism' he fought against our Lord Jesus Christ as the only way of salvation. The New Roman Catholic Catechism and its false teachings clearly evidence this fact.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
[QUOTE=BillTwisse]Look at the 'achievements' of this Pope:
4. He supported the ridiculous fantasies of the Fatima sisters and their false prophecies inspired by the devil. A close friend of mine was deceived by this nonsence to the very end of his life--believing that John Paul II was the "last righteous Pope" according to the prophecy of the sisters that the God-ordained Papacy would end after him.
Its funny that you mention this because I have a friend (Or an acquaintance i should say) that will not be quite about this Nostradamus guy who supposedly said the world is gonna end or some Big disaster will happen after this Pope dies. Wich by the way i have no reason to believe because since when do Christians listen to prophecy of Occultist. But yeah im starting to realize there is alot of propaganda happening around this Pope for some odd reason.
The_Truth
John 3:3~
In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
I am actualy glad that someone started this thread.
I don't own a t.v. so I miss a lot of the hype that the world likes to spue out, but was still forced to hear to much praise for the passing pope than I would ever care to. My real concern was hearing Protestants talk about the "good" that the pope did and we can't say for sure we wasn't a Christian!
I believe He was anit-Christ in doctrine and in practice and should not be given lee-way becuase of deeply entrenched traditions! Lest we forget those words of Christ "if the eye be single, then the whole body is full of light, but if the eye be dark, then how great is that darkness and the whole body is full of it" - "either make a tree evil and it will bare evil fruit, or make the tree good and it will bare good fruit"
I'm sorry - but with out total and complete repentance coming from the pope the effect of which would be to change all the ungodly beliefes and practices of the RC - or his renouncing of it totally and leaving it - we can say - the pope is a son of Satan and does the works of his father, he will be happy gnashing his teeth in hell against the Christ he so despised on earth!
What ever happened to the protest in Protestant?
or when did non-conformist become ecumenicalist?
"We see that our whole salvation and all its parts are comprehended in Christ[Acts 4:12]. We should therefore take care not to derive the least portion of it from anywhere else." - John Calvin
(William Ames is my non-conform mentorOriginally Posted by samohtwerdna
) Many forums are discussing this of late. Any rejection of calling the pope and what he adhered to and lead, for what in fact it is..... is out of emotion and feelings, rather than Biblical understanding of the truth of Jesus Christ. Let us not forget that the pope has been put on the same level as Christ doctrinally in the RC, the pope fully knowing this , adhered to this blasphemous fancy of mens minds. If you want to view outright idolatry the next days will be full of this Romish doctrine. How much emphasis, honor and glory will be placed on the pope rather than the Almighty Saviour and you shall soon have your answer.
Now lest any should be exercised by these statements above, let me remind readers here that confess the truth of the Protestant Reformed faith. Our fathers were pagans, our mothers semi-pelagians. I boast not in the Protestant faith, but in Christ that upheld it and His church. The words of Article 29 of the Belgic Confession are just as much for Protestant churches as they are for the RC. But for the grace of God, there would we go. Ezekial chapter 16 is the truth of our heritage as well. Dead in trespasses and sins and in need of our beloved Saviour to speak the words "Live" without which we would remain dead.
Greetings and salutations, el rana
21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.
Proverbs chapter 19
One of the great achievements cited over the weekend was the Pope's victory over "theologians of clarity". The argument was that the Papal teaching needed to be more like the paradox theology of the Byzantines and that this Pope achieved much success in moving "the church" toward that end!
So those Christian teachers like ourselves who believe very much in a clear, logical, and certain body of gospel teaching are what the world needs to get rid of.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Thanks for this reminder of the grace of God to my unbelieving heart. As Luther said it was the pope inside that he feared more than the pope outside (the one in Rome)
For the record, I would love to see the day when a pope repents and the RC completely reforms. This is impossible with men, but with God all things are possible. However, I see no scriptural reason to hope for such a thing. But rather a call to rejoice in Christ victory over His enemies. A call to sing the song of Moses:
Whether God detsroy's his enemeis by giving them a heart of flesh (like you and I) or by calling the ravens to peck off their flesh (the ungodly in Rev 19) is up to His soverieng care, I will rejoice either way!"Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice."
Woe unto me, for I am worse than the pope! only Christ could save such a sinner as myself, and I boast not at all in anything but Christ.
"We see that our whole salvation and all its parts are comprehended in Christ[Acts 4:12]. We should therefore take care not to derive the least portion of it from anywhere else." - John Calvin
Was not Judas "concerned for the poor?" Did not the foul spirit-possessed young woman who served her masters as an oracle for the "gods" cry out the news about Paul:
"Acts 16:17 These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation?"
And did not the Pope who all the world wonders after on television, radio, and newsprint do many mighty works in the name of Christ, preach that:
"1. Contemplating the mystery of the Incarnation of the Son of God, the Church prepares to cross the threshold of the Third Millennium. Never more than at this time do we feel the need to make our own the Apostle's hymn of praise and thanksgiving: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and blameless before him. He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will... For he has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of his will, according to his purpose which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth” (Eph 1:3-5, 9-10).
These words clearly indicate that in Jesus Christ the history of salvation finds its culmination and ultimate meaning. In him, we have all received “grace upon grace” (Jn 1:16), having been reconciled with the Father (cf. Rom 5:10; 2 Cor 5:18).
The birth of Jesus at Bethlehem is not an event which can be consigned to the past. The whole of human history in fact stands in reference to him: our own time and the future of the world are illumined by his presence. He is “the Living One” (Rev 1:18), “who is, who was and who is to come” (Rev 1:4). Before him every knee must bend, in the heavens, on earth and under the earth, and every tongue proclaim that he is Lord (cf. Phil 2:10-11). In the encounter with Christ, every man discovers the mystery of his own life.(1)"
-John Paul II
In our Lord's life, Satan's brilliant lies shone most in the lives and the mouths of His flatterers. Judas and the devils ever sought to call Jesus the Son of God, ever sought to kiss His cheek, call Him master, and then proceed to destroy Him. This past Pope was the same. Flattery with the lips, a sign of the cross on the hand, a kindly smile.
Praise of One worthy of praise is good, the cross is not a hand gesture, but the pouring out of the life of the eternal Son of God in our flesh life for us and our complete and glorious salvation, and kind warm smiles pour from converted hearts indeed.
Yet pouring from a perverted heart is a false imitation of righteousness in order to exalt oneself, even for our current topic, in order to exalt oneself in the temple of God above all that is called "god", and declare onelself the replacement of the Second Person of the Trinity in this earth.
Therefore, we, as Samohn says, are to be the most wary of the little "gods" in our own breasts that would seize God's glory for our own. O, what a fall we and our father Adam had when we would lay hold of God's throne in proud rebellion!
At the same time, the gospel is for us ungodly that:
"though my conscience accuse me, that I have grossly transgressed all the commandments of God, and kept none of them, and am still inclined to all evil; notwithstanding, God, without any merit of mine, but only of mere grace, grants and imputes to me, the perfect satisfaction, righteousness and holiness of Christ; even so, as if I never had had, nor committed any sin: yea, as if I had fully accomplished all that obedience which Christ has accomplished for me; inasmuch as I embrace such benefit with a believing heart."(HCAnswer 60)
Do we solely by Christ's Spirit in us and God's covenant gift of faith believe this of ouselves?
O sinners, believe this, remember this to your comfort, that Christ alone is your righteousness before God. In Him alone is your merit of eternal life.
Was Christ's righteousness the Pope's? The whole of Christendom seems to think so. It sounds as if faith and good works are so abundant in our times that no one need fear Him who judges the quick and the dead. Yet, when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to the gospel there will be multitudes for whom Christ did not pray and thus persish everlastingly. What if the Pope instead of going to heaven, persihed with the false teachers and false christs whose "damnation slumbereth not"?
When you fellow forumites are out from under the cover of digital anonymity, raise that question or even make a more definite statement about JPII's destiny and I assure you that you will feel the sweet love, the patient tolerance, and the calm peace as the world knows and gives.
Based on all these considerations and more, I have serious doubts about the Pope's salvation and will never call him brother or preach him into heaven. He taught and confessed a false gospel.
However, I cannot find biblical warrant in his case for asserting beyond all doubt that he is eternally damned. There is the ever so slight realm of miracle in which God might have worked through the Word and Holy Spirit at the end of his life--apart from our knowledge. And I mean slight; the Bible records very little of this type of deathbed repentance. But we don't know what his final thoughts were.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Bob, I definitely agree with this.Based on all these considerations and more, I have serious doubts about the Pope's salvation and will never call him brother or preach him into heaven. He taught and confessed a false gospel.
However, I cannot find biblical warrant in his case for asserting beyond all doubt that he is eternally damned. There is the ever so slight realm of miracle in which God might have worked through the Word and Holy Spirit at the end of his life--apart from our knowledge. And I mean slight; the Bible records very little of this type of deathbed repentance. But we don't know what his final thoughts were.
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
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I wholeheartedly agree. NEVER should we make assumptions about the damnation of any individual. Most here profess to believe in God's own glorious grace as the only requirement for salvation. Given that, the gifting of grace can come at any moment in time, including the infinitely long tick of a single second on a clock in time. Though it may be but a fraction of space in which to fit a thought for us, to the Almighty God, He can work wonders in far less time.Based on all these considerations and more, I have serious doubts about the Pope's salvation and will never call him brother or preach him into heaven. He taught and confessed a false gospel.
However, I cannot find biblical warrant in his case for asserting beyond all doubt that he is eternally damned. There is the ever so slight realm of miracle in which God might have worked through the Word and Holy Spirit at the end of his life--apart from our knowledge. And I mean slight; the Bible records very little of this type of deathbed repentance. But we don't know what his final thoughts were.
Though I refuse to make assumptions about the pope's final resting place, I have no problem declaring the gospel for which he stood to be that of the devil. Even so, it was my earnest prayer that while he lay sick God might have mercy upon him and forgive him of his utter wretchedness. Let us remember Stephen, who, with death looming, asked forgiveness for those who persecuted him. No matter how great a person's transgressions, God's forgiveness is greater!
Melted, we should not offer prayers to God for such a man, Jesus said we can recognise men by their fruit's surely at 84 and antiChristian for so many years as Pope, you would cast some confusion on God using one of His Elect in such away,.We can offer prayer's for some one that does us harm, or something bad to us, But not for their Salvation,. [The Lord has made all things for Himself;yes, even the wicked for the day of evil. Proverb's 16v4;]. Ivor Thomas....
Where is that said Ivor? I am just curious.
Stephen did, Christ himself did.
What makes thee to differ? is it something in you>
But by the grace of God Ivor.
Cast some confusion on God? I disagree with that statement. When you were in the snares of being a JW, I am sure some prayed for you. And perhaps some asked why? He is an idolator. remember Ivor, Praying for God to save a person is different that praying the person makes a decision for Chrsit.
Again I ask, "What makes thee to differ?"
God saving one in sin for many years glorifies Him all the more. All I know is I am capable to sin to teh utmost, but Gods grace is greater.
Joe
Joe you seem a bit upset with me, when I was a JW. someone could have prayed for me to be delivered from their grasp, BUT no one except Jesus could have prayed for my Salvation[other sheep I have these also Imust bring] Salvation was wrought at the cross once and completely, Joe do you reall believe in Election,. Ivor Thomas...
The questions under consideration go back to the issue of whether we should ever pray for any deceived & unsaved person to be a recipient of God's mercy. If we want to continue that discussion, perhaps we need to resurrect the thread of the same topic.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Ivor, I do not "systemize" my prayer life according to election. I pray for my loved ones salvation. I pray for my childrens. This is by no means in oposition to election. God is active in the life of His sheep Ivor. They may run into the deepest sin for 60-70-80 years before being called. I have absolutely no problem with praying for ones salvaition. I have no problem "consecrating" my children to the lord as many have done in scripture. That is our hope. What is more important to pray for?
Not that my prayer or yours does the saving, but in Gods providence, perhaps our interaction with a person, through prayer or personal may be the means to bring him under the Gospel.
The Cross does not hinder prayer Ivor. At least according to Paul.
What does my understanding of election have to do with my prayer life? I pray for Christ alone to grab a person by His irresistable grace and save them period..
I am not upset with you Ivor. I get a tad peeved when someone blocks a person from doing what is commanded of them to do.
There is no list in scripture for what we are to pray for is there?
I do not want to digress this
Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:25 Brethren, pray for us.
2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [his] goodness, and the work of faith with power:
And the beloved John
1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it
What were they praying for?
In His Grace
Joe
Brethren:
The same God who elected those who were (are) to be saved also "elected" the world authorities. That's what "absolute predestination of all things" means. However, note that Paul in 1 Timothy 2: 1-2 Paul urges us to pray for "kings and those in authority so we can live a peaceful and quiet life".
The principle is the same: What would we pray for "kings and authorities who can potentially disturb our peace and quietness when God was the one who ultimately "appointed" them and control their actions?
So much as we are to pray for kings and authorities who have been "elected" by God to be "evil" we can pray for "unsaved" people. The fact that God elects people for Salvation should not preclude us from praying for their Salvation especially because we don't know who they are.
Now, the question is if we should pray for the pope... Here is a word of wisdom: Well, too late! We don't pray for the dead! We cannot even pray to ask God to have spoken to him in his last seconds because, again, the man is dead, although that is possible according to the parable of the workers! We can pray for those evil people who are living so God will deliver us from their evil and that they will be released from the grasp of evil even if we know God "appointed" them to be evil.
Why God designed it to be that way is beyond our understanding. But there is no paradox and no contradiction in praying for something we don't know, such as the "election or not" of some people.
I pray for unsaved loved ones but also pray for unloved saved ones!
My humble opinion only!
Milt
Grace Ambassador
A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace
My pledge to other members:
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11
Milt all that I am saying is we can not Pray that someone be Elected, that is done in eternity and our Salvation is wrought at the cross, We can pray for blind eyes and deaf ears to be opened etc,.What Joe seems to be saying, is that we can alter Election by our prayer's. thank's Ivor Thomas...
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