Charles H. Spurgeon on Evangelism etc.

[foundinHim]

... do you not think that men are careless about the souls of others because they have fallen into one-sided views of gospel doctrines , and have turned the docrtines of grace into a couch for idleness to rest upon ? " God will save His own , " say they . Yes , but his own do not talk in that fashion ; they are not like Cain , who said , " Am I my brother's keeper ? " Unquestionably the Lord will see that His own elect elect are called in due season , but He will do this by the preaching or teaching of the Word . Predestination is not a legitimate reason for inaction ; men do not consider it so in other matters , why then in religion ? Except the Lord prospers us in business all our efforts are in vain , and yet we do not say , " I shall have as many pounds in my pocket as God intends I shall have , and therefore I need not work or trade . " No , men save their fatalism to play the fool with in spiritual things : in all other things they are not such idiots as to suffer predestination to paralyse their minds , but here , since idleness wants an excuse for itself , they dare to abuse this sacred truth to stultify their consciences .

[GraceAmbassador]

... do you not think that men are careless about the souls of others because they have fallen into one-sided views of gospel doctrines , and have turned the docrtines of grace into a couch for idleness to rest upon ? " God will save His own , " say they . Yes , but his own do not talk in that fashion ; they are not like Cain , who said , " Am I my brother's keeper ? " Unquestionably the Lord will see that His own elect elect are called in due season , but He will do this by the preaching or teaching of the Word . Predestination is not a legitimate reason for inaction ; men do not consider it so in other matters , why then in religion ? Except the Lord prospers us in business all our efforts are in vain , and yet we do not say , " I shall have as many pounds in my pocket as God intends I shall have , and therefore I need not work or trade . " No , men save their fatalism to play the fool with in spiritual things : in all other things they are not such idiots as to suffer predestination to paralyse their minds , but here , since idleness wants an excuse for itself , they dare to abuse this sacred truth to stultify their consciences .

Dear Saint:

In generic terms, this is indeed a fair admonition, however what's the point of if unless you have any evidence that specifically anyone here is "careless about the souls of others"?

Other than what we discuss in this Forum, what indicates to you a need to post this exhortation in here and what further knowledge do you have of our activities in the ministry to the souls of others? Could you elaborate?

Is it that perhaps you just decided to post something that you found interesting from one of your predilect authors without any other purpose?

Thanks,

Milt

[Robert R. Higby]

Spurgeonist drivel by Spurgeon himself. He's attacking a straw man.

[foundinHim]

Gentleman , you have divergent views regarding my post . Milt thinks it is a fair admonition but may not apply to anyone on the forum especially himself . Bill thinks the Spurgeon quote was drivel . That's a study in contrasts .

If what C.H.S. said does not apply to anyone here then it merely is not relevant . If it is a fair admonition then it is not drivel . I think that when Spurgeon uttered those remarks he was indeed tackling some cherished beliefs current in his day . If anyone hates his words then perhaps some even as of now subscribe to the convictions he was against .

[Brandan Kraft]

foundinhim, do you have an agenda?

[foundinHim]

Yes , Darth , I do . I disagree with the exta articles added to the Gospel Standard Creed . I think that those points are in error . I tried to engage you and others on relevant Scripture dealing with the G.S . position . There are many more Bible passages dealing with the subject . Charles Spurgeon dealt with the G.S. folks in his time . Their same position is advocated by you and others here . I am not surprised . I knew that was your position as webmaster of this site . But I do want to engage you and others on this topic . If this subject is off-limits just tell me and I will not bring it up again here .

You know that I do not believe in so-called common grace . And I do not agree with the mindset of a free and well-meant offer . One cannot "offer " salvation . You can present biblical truths , tell folks that the sacrifice has been made , that Christ came to save sinners . I would never say to anyone that God loves them and that Christ died for them . I have a lot in common with you on these things . However , I do believe in what you call duty-faith . I believe that the natural person is dead in sin . The creature has no power in himself to turn to the Lord . But I do believe that warnings , admonitions and appeals should be made freely to one's listeners . If anyone has their heart opened to the Gospel it is because the Lord opened it as He did with Lydia and every other elect person . We do not have to select our audience and determine if it is " mixed " or not . I think there is a fatalism which is not in keeping with God's Word . I believe Scripure enjoins us to win souls , knowing that we do not do the winning ourselves . We are just earthen vessels .

Gotta' go for now . I'll be interested in your response . I was not able to touch on other matters in this post .

[GraceAmbassador]

Gentleman , you have divergent views regarding my post . Milt thinks it is a fair admonition but may not apply to anyone on the forum especially himself . Bill thinks the Spurgeon quote was drivel . That's a study in contrasts .

If what C.H.S. said does not apply to anyone here then it merely is not relevant . If it is a fair admonition then it is not drivel . I think that when Spurgeon uttered those remarks he was indeed tackling some cherished beliefs current in his day . If anyone hates his words then perhaps some even as of now subscribe to the convictions he was against .

Dear Foundinhim:

A fair admonition can be drivel when it is addressed to the wrong target audience... and is unecessary.

We have no problem in the fact that we find divergencies in points of view.

As Darth (Brandan), I have to confess that I did not understand at first you posting that admonition other than a continuation of the conversation we were having on the other thread (I believe is the Hyper Calvinism one) where you propose that we are to persuade sinners (if I understood your point and forgive me if I misrepresent you). I thought af first that you posted solely based on what you read here without any first hand knowledge as to whether we "care or not" for souls.

It does seem that we have some core points of agreement and I cherish that. But note that our pursuit in this Forum is not primarily agreement, but an understanding of what God is speaking about His Grace and the targets of it. Sometimes we can agree on ALL points and sometimes we need some time to learn. What we (I) usually become a little "touchy" by is when people start assuming what we do, what we are and how "caring" we are for souls or not solely based upon the very minor microcosmic aspect that this Forum is in our lives and in our relationship with God. Yes it is of vital importance that which we write! But it is not all of our lives.

I believe that's why me, specifically me, became a bit bewildered by the point you were trying to make, if anything, by posting CHS's quote here.

We are called to exhort one another! No problem with that aspect; we appreciate Godly, timely and well-fitting exhortation, but unfortunately I could not categorize your posting of CHS quote as such; but that is me and I have been wrong before.

Please do exhort me (us) when it is some area in which you are fully knowlegeable and inspired to exhort us, but, please, as a brother in the Lord, refrain from meaningless assumptions and the ensuing exhortations about such assumptions, IF that was the case of your admonition above.

In generic terms, only in generic terms, your admonition is fair.

Thanks!

Milt

[Brandan Kraft]

I've decided that I'm tired of discussing this topic. Foundinhim, you know where I stand, I won't change. No amount of arguing will convince me that the blessed gift of faith is a work or duty which must be performed by men.

I've clarified myself time and time and time again. Read my article - I do not deny men have an obligation to believe the Gospel. I just do not believe men have a duty to be saved. Men will be held accountable.

As Bob said, Spurgeon set up straw men only to tear them down. Foundinhim, I totally resent your implication that this board consists of a bunch of people including myself that hold to some sort of "fatalism".

We do not have to select our audience and determine if it is " mixed " or not.

Another crazy strawman! I would never suggest such a thing! However I do not believe we ought to talk to all men as if they were regenerate! I do not tell unregenerate men that have show no interest in the GOspel, show no cares for their sins, and show no interest in a Sovereign Lord to "be saved."

Anyway, I'm through with this topic. Enough. Please do not bring it up again any time soon. If you want your "duty-faith" and exhortation to men to fulfill their obligations and be saved, that's fine with me even though I strongly disagree with you. Just don't do it on this forum.

Brandan

Thread Closed!