Help Translating Daniels 70 weeks

[Robert R. Higby]

Thanks for reminding me; I'll have to go look for that again.

On the different (or same?) time-lines in Daniel there has been much debate; not over chapter 11 as much as chapter 7. I do not know where I stand right now on the identity of the 4th beast; it is not necessarily Greece. Different time-lines portray different histories; the 'little horns' of ch. 7 vs. ch. 8 are not necessarily the same antichrists. The 'abomination of desolation' in ch. 8 is definitely not the same as the one in ch. 9 which is the one which Christ refers to in the Olivet discourse.

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by InChristAlways I have a question. How do others view the 4th beast/ kingdom in Daniel 7 with the 4th King in Daniel 11? Are they related or different? And how is the 4th beast "diverse" from all the kingdoms? Thanks.

Daniel 7:23 `Thus he said: The 4th beast is the fourth kingdom["Javan"?] in the earth, that is diverse from all kingdoms, and it consumeth all the earth, and treadeth it down, and breaketh it small.

Daniel 11:2 And now truth I shall tell to you. Behold! Yet 3 Kings, ones standing to Persia ["pure] , and the 4th he shall be enriched riches, great from all. And as to be steadfast him in riches of him, he shall rouse all the Kingdom of "Javan" [Zech 9:13]. 3 And he stands, king, master, and he rules [a] dominion, vast/great, and he does as acceptable/will of him

Zechariah 9:13 For I have trodden for Me Judah, A bow I have filled [with] Ephraim, And I have stirred up thy sons, O Zion, Against thy sons, O Javan, And I have set thee as the sword of a hero.

I have translated this as best as I can, and would like to ask others here if the "Holy Covenant" in vs 30 is different from the "covenant" in vs 32?

Daniel 11:28 to [an] Appointed Time. He shall return and He comes into Southland and She shall not become as former and as [a] latter. 30 And They come into Him, boats of Kittim, and He is sore, and He returns and He menaces on [a] Covenant, Holy One, and He does and He returns, and understanding on Ones forsaking [a] Covenant, Holy One 31 and armed forces from Him, They shall stand and They violate the Sanctuary, The Stronghold, and They take away the Continual/Perpetual and They give The Abomination One making desolate.32 And ones condemning [a] Covenant He shall pollute in slicknesses, and with Ones knowing of his God, They shall be steadfast and They do. And Ones, intelligent of [a] people, They shall cause to understand to a multitude, and They are stumbled in sword and in blaze, in captivity, and in plunder days. 34 And in stumbling of Them,

Thanks for reminding me; I'll have to go look for that again.

On the different (or same?) time-lines in Daniel there has been much debate; not over chapter 11 as much as chapter 7. I do not know where I stand right now on the identity of the 4th beast; it is not necessarily Greece. Different time-lines portray different histories; the 'little horns' of ch. 7 vs. ch. 8 are not necessarily the same antichrists. The 'abomination of desolation' in ch. 8 is definitely not the same as the one in ch. 9 which is the one which Christ refers to in the Olivet discourse.

Thanks RH. I believe "Javan" is symbolic, and I am looking at it perhaps in the sense of the corrupt murderous OC High Priesthood in Jerusalem Jesus railed against in the NT [and God railed against in Malachi also]. Jesus had no great love for them, and also trying to determine who Paul was talking about here, as God is controlling all the action it appears:

2 Thessalonians 2:11 and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie,

Daniel 9 shows both the words "a sacrifice and oblation, while Daniel 8 shows the "Continual /Perpetual by itself. I don't know if there is a difference or not.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall strenthen a covenant to many, one seven, and in midst/middle of the seven, he shall cause to cease a sacrifice [#02077] and present/oblation [#04503]--------- and on [a] wing abominations one making desolate and unto finish and being decided she shall be poured forth on a desolation

Daniel 8:11 And unto the prince/chief of the host/army he magnifies himself, and from him is exalted/raised up the Continual/perpetual [#08548], and [he is flung] down place of a sanctuary [#04720] of him 12 And [a] host she is given on the Continual/perpetual [#08548] in transgressing, and she is flinging Truth toward [the] earth and she does and she prospers..................13 And I am hearing one, holy one, and he is saying to one holy one, to so and so, the one speaking, till when the Vision of the Continual[#08548] and the transgressing desolating one giving, and [a] holy place and host trampling?

The article "the" is only used in Daniel 11:31 before 'abomination' which some feel is the one Jesus is talking about in the Olivet Discourse. I am mainly working on chapter 11 right now [translation] but it is, um, "difficult" as is most of Daniel. Thanks.

Here is one arguement about it:

The 'abomination of desolation' in Daniel 12:11 however does not carry the definite article and should thus be rendered 'AN abomination of desolation'.

Elliot argues that the lack of the definite article excludes 12:11 from being a direct reference to the 'abomination of desolation' of 11:31:

Hebrew Interlinear of Daniel 11:31 Showing the use of the Definite Article -
THE Abomination of Desolation

Hebrew Interlinear of Daniel 12:11 Showing the Absence of the Definite Article -
AN Abomination of Desolation

6) Jesus' discourse in Matthew 24 indicates that following the 'abomination of desolation' that there would be 'great tribulation' (Matt 24:21). This tribulation was to last until immediately preceding his second advent (Matt 24:29).
Then, as to the epoch from which the periods are to be reckoned, (an epoch marked by the setting up of some desolating abomination,) there is one thing very important to note, though hitherto, I believe, overlooked by expositors, - viz. that the definite article is wanting before the word abomination in verse (1211“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.”, so that the correct rendering of the clause would be, “From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and an abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be 1290 days. By this not only is the desolating abomination of xi. 31, “And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate”..........

[InChristAlways]

Would someone here like to start a thread just on Daniel 11, both translation and interpretations? This chapter, to me anyway, is the most difficult in the OT and since Jesus mentions it in the Olivet Discourse, perhaps we can try to "illuminate" it a bit. Thanks.
Steve

Matthew 24:15 `Whenever, therefore, ye may be perceiving the abomination of the desolation, the one being declared through Daniel the prophet, standing in [a] place, holy (whoever is reading let him observe)

Mark 13:14 `but/however when ye may be perceiving the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (the one reading let him understand!), then the ones in the Judea, let them be fleeing! toward the mountains;

Daniel 11:31 and armed forces from Him, They shall stand and They violate the Sanctuary, The Stronghold, and They take away the Continual/Perpetual and They give The Abomination One making desolate.

[ray kikkert]

Would someone here like to start a thread just on Daniel 11, both translation and interpretations? This chapter, to me anyway, is the most difficult in the OT and since Jesus mentions it in the Olivet Discourse, perhaps we can try to "illuminate" it a bit. Thanks.
Steve

Matthew 24:15 `Whenever, therefore, ye may be perceiving the abomination of the desolation, the one being declared through Daniel the prophet, standing in [a] place, holy (whoever is reading let him observe)

Mark 13:14 `but/however when ye may be perceiving the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (the one reading let him understand!), then the ones in the Judea, let them be fleeing! toward the mountains;

Daniel 11:31 and armed forces from Him, They shall stand and They violate the Sanctuary, The Stronghold, and They take away the Continual/Perpetual and They give The Abomination One making desolate.

Chapter 11 of Daniel is the struggle of God's elect in earth and there suffering at the hands of the ungodly antichristian forces. As in other parts of history the antichristian forces rise up against the Lord's anointed and according to the sovereign purposes of the Lord carnally prevail.

We know from historys light that Antiochus Epiphanes was one such antichristian beast. His ungodly acts have been described to us. His cursed acts of descretion of the temple, offering swine upon the altar, the torment and torture of the saints and forbidding them to worship.

These types of ungodly antichrist have appeared throughout history in the Roman emperors and their pagan idolatry, as well as the Roman Catholic church and its accursed idolatry and inquisition.... et al.

Yet we know:
God is the Lord of history
He directs all things to serve His purposes
His chosen elect know for a surety that the Kingdom of God will triumph.

The antichristian beasts will be destroyed by Christ abruptly who shall return to judge the quick and the dead. Their defeat will be catastrophic and what horror awaits them.