Sitting on 12 thrones judging

[InChristAlways]

Greeting in Jesus Christ and God the Father, who is ever praised. I want mainly to show where "thrones" are used in various parts of the bible.
In the OT, God is shown judging His people and "thrones" being set up. One interesting passage showing this is in Psalm 122 and depending on "translation" used, it shows thrones set in "Jerusalem":

Psalms 122:1 A Song of Ascents. Of David. I was glad when they said to me, "Let us go into the house of the LORD." 2 Our feet have been standing Within your gates, O Jerusalem! 3 Jerusalem is built As a city that is compact together, 4 Where the tribes go up, The tribes of the LORD, To the Testimony of Israel, To give thanks to the name of the LORD. 5 For thrones are set there for judgment, The thrones of the house of David.

It appears God speaks of 2 different types of Jerusalems, a physical one and a spiritual one that His Son, Jesus the Christ["annointed"] will set up in the future.

Jeremiah shows ALL the families of the north setting up "thrones" at the entrance to Jerusalem. [There are many places in the OT that show an army or destroyer coming out of the North]. We can see from the wording that they are not literal "chairs/Seats" to sit on, but judging by the Word and Witness of Jesus Christ and dispening justice.

Jeremiah 1:14Then the LORD said to me: "Out of the North calamity shall break forth On all the inhabitants of the land. 15 For behold, I am calling All the families of the kingdoms of the north," says the LORD; "They shall come and each one set his throne At the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, Against all its walls all around, And against all the cities of Judah. 16 I will utter My judgments Against them concerning all their wickedness, Because they have forsaken Me, Burned incense to other gods, And worshiped the works of their own hands.

Luke and Matt shows the Apostle's will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 Tribes of Israel. These were the "firstfruit" of Christ's elect and so are giving that honour.

Luke 22:30 that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom; and ye shall sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye who have followed me, in the regeneration["3824]when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

This form of the word "regeneration" is used in only one other place in the NT, Titus 3

Titus 3:5 not by works [done] in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration[#3824] and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

3824 paliggenesia pal-ing-ghen-es-ee'-ah from 3825 and 1078; (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), i.e. (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specially, Messianic restoration:--regeneration.3825 palin pal'-in probably from the same as 3823 (through the idea of oscillatory repetition); (adverbially) anew, i.e. (of place) back, (of time) once more, or (conjunctionally) furthermore or on the other hand:--again.

Moving to revelation, we see Jesus telling those Elect saints that overcome, they will be sitting on thrones. This appears to me they must die to be able to sit on them?

Revelation 3:14 " And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans[last church] write,21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

In revelation 20, John visions thrones and those sitting on them. Again, either they have died and been raised or they are living and judging while "on earth"?

revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them...............

Revelation 20 again shows a White Throne and those standing before it. What is curious is they are not shown "raised or delivered up".What is the difference between these and the ones raised up out of the "sea" and "death and hades"?

revelation 20:11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Daniel 7 shows both thrones and white throne set up to judge with a "nasty beast" being thrown into the flames. Is this the same beast in revelation or is it the devil or false prophet? Any views?

Daniel 7:8 "I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, [were] eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. 9 " I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment [was] white as snow, And the hair of His head [was] like pure wool. His throne [was] a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire; 10 A fiery stream issued And came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, And the books were opened. 11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 "As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

[InChristAlways]

Discussion on the word "beheaded" in revelation 20:http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ad.php?t=57475

Hi. I have a question on the use of the "beheaded" in reve 20:4. This is a unique word only used once here in the NT. It is a completely different greek word than the one used for the "beheading" of John the Baptist. Why not just use the word for "killed"? Is there a reason God chose this particular word for this very difficult verse?...........................Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that had been Beheaded[#3990] for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived["came alive"], and reigned with Christ a thousand years. pepelekismenwn <3990> (5772)

Matthew 14:10 and he sent and beheaded[#607] John in the prison. Luke 9:9 And Herod said, John I beheaded: but who is this, about whom I hear such things? And he sought to see him.apekefalisen <607> (5656)

Discussions on revelation 20:4-6

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ad.php?t=57122 Eschatology thread on Revelation 20:4

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ad.php?t=57282 My thread

Daniel 7 shows the thrones set up along with the White Throne and if you notice, the first dead are shown standing, not "raised" but are there already. The rest have to be "raised" from the sea and death and hades?

Like most of revelation, just because one "sentence" directly follows another does not mean it is relation to the previous one. The ones sitting on the thrones in chapt 20:4 is a seperate event than vs 5-6.
I believe the ones who came to life to reign for a 1000yrs may be the ones who later become "martyred", and may be the symbolical "2 witnesses".

This is what makes revelation more difficult to study as some scenes are in heaven and some on earth. I will provide more later as it hard to discuss on a forum as large as this and why I just put up a few verses at a time. Blessings.

Revelation 3:14 " And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans[last church] write,21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them...............

revelation 20:11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Daniel 7:8 "I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, [were] eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. 9 " I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment [was] white as snow, And the hair of His head [was] like pure wool. His throne [was] a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire; 10 A fiery stream issued And came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, And the books were opened. 11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 "As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

Psalms 122:1 A Song of Ascents. Of David. I was glad when they said to me, "Let us go into the house of the LORD." 2 Our feet have been standing Within your gates, O Jerusalem! 3 Jerusalem is built As a city that is compact together, 4 Where the tribes go up, The tribes of the LORD, To the Testimony of Israel, To give thanks to the name of the LORD. 5 For thrones are set there for judgment, The thrones of the house of David.

[InChristAlways]

Daniel 7:8 "I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, [were] eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words. 9 " I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of Days was seated; His garment [was] white as snow, And the hair of His head [was] like pure wool. His throne [was] a fiery flame, Its wheels a burning fire; 10 A fiery stream issued And came forth from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was seated, And the books were opened. 11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 "As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

Just as there are 2 kinds of resurrections in the NT, there are also 2 kinds of death. We die to the flesh[Law] and are raised in the Spirit[Jesus] while physically alive. At our physical death, we are again raised in the spirit as the example of John in revelation being "raisied in the spirit" to be taken up to heaven to view visions of heaven. We are already born into "death" immediately at birth and unless we are "raised" into the spirit of the faith that is of Jesus, we are dead in the "flesh".

Revelation 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door [standing] open in heaven. And the first voice[Jesus] which I heard [was] like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this." 2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and [One] sat on the throne.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye who have followed me, in the regeneration["3824]when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, Judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

reve 12:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.

quote from poster on another thread post #16 Romans9 http://www.predestinarian.net/showthread.php?t=2481

Ephesians 2: (1) and you being dead in deviations and sins, (2) in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the Sons of disobedience, (3) among whom we also all conducted ourselves in times past in the lusts of our flesh, doing the things willed of the flesh and of the understanding, and were by nature the children of wrath, even as the rest.

What does this say about us, before we were saved? We were DEAD in trespasses and in sins. Now when it says we were DEAD, does that mean that we didn’t breathe, or that our heart wasn’t beating, or that our brain wasn’t working? Well, we can see from verses 2 and 3 that it doesn’t mean that, because it says that we were DOING THINGS. So when we talk about unbelievers being DEAD, we don’t mean that they don’t do anything. This is a certain kind of death. As verse 1 says, it is a kind of death that is in TRESPASSES and SINS. We were dead IN OUR SINS. Colossians 2:13 says that we were dead in the offenses and the uncircumcision of our flesh. As John 3:19 says, unsaved people love darkness rather than light, because their works are evil. Romans 6:17 and 20 says that we were SLAVES of sin. So we were DEAD in sin and SLAVES to sin. This means that everything we did was evil, and we COULD NOT do ANYTHING good. We couldn’t even understand the difference between good and evil. In the second part of Romans 6:20, it says that we were "free as to righteousness." This means that when we were slaves to sin, we were WITHOUT righteousness. We did not have a righteousness that answered the demands of God’s law and justice.

Note at the white throne judgement the first "dead" are not raised or "delivered up" as the ones in the sea and death and hades are. This is one reason I can view the first judgement on the living "dead" as those standing at the 6th seal trying to hide from the One sitting on the "white throne" of revelation 20. Any comments or views on this?


reve 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, Standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Reve 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the Throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"


reve 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished........

........... 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

[InChristAlways]

If according to you, this earthly reign will happen, it cannot happen under grace, but back to the levetical priesthood.

I believe it will happen. But I have not said it cannot happen under grace. I have not taken time to study all the details relative to the Millenium. I wish I had done so. Then I would know more. Now I only know from Revelation there will be a Millenium on earth, a 1000 year reign of Messias, where regenerate Jews play an important part. The Body of the Christ will not dwell on earth during this time I have come to understand.

And is this bondage to be restored in the mellenial reign for the Jews on earth Harald?

I have not said this. But what if the entire Mosaic law is enforced on earth then? It is no bondage to regenerated Jews. Remember they were zealous of the Law in Acts. What if God enforces the Mosaic Law again? What would be so bad with that, in your opinion?

The above was part of a discussion between 2 members on another thread and the 1000yr period was brought up.
In relation to that, when do the 12 apostles sit on "12 thrones" judging the 12 tribes of Israel? And who judges the gentiles, the jews? Thanks.

Did Judas receive forgiveness for his betrayal of Jesus?

Luke 22:30 that ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom; and ye shall sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that ye who have followed me, in the regeneration["3824]when the Son of man shall sit on the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Titus 3:5 not by works [done] in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration[#3824] and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

[ray kikkert]

The above was part of a discussion between 2 members on another thread and the 1000yr period was brought up.
In relation to that, when do the 12 apostles sit on "12 thrones" judging the 12 tribes of Israel? And who judges the gentiles, the jews? Thanks.

Did Judas receive forgiveness for his betrayal of Jesus?

... from Rev. Martin Stewart, PRC minister in Northern Ireland:

"The Bible teaches that Judas was “the son of perdition” (John 17:12), that is, a man wholly characterized by perdition, ruin and eternal destruction. Did Jesus really die for Judas when He knew that the Old Testament had already prophesied that Judas would betray Him (Ps. 41:9) and “go to his own place,” namely Hell (Acts 1:25; Ps. 109; John 17:12)?"

I agree. Judas was the son of perdition and thus not saved, nor was granted forgiveness.