I've recently started reading some of the articles at the Biblical Horizons website and have found some pretty good stuff. One of the articles was on the interpretation of the angels in Jude 6. I'm not sure what I think of the interpretation, but it's interesting. http://www.biblicalhorizons.com/bh/bh001.htm
For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine
Hi WB. Like most of the bible, Jude is highly symbolic and I believe angels/sons of god were those that believed in God but deserted Him for their own earthly desires[which Paul, James and Peter elaborated on about the fellow brethren in the flesh, the jews/Hebrews/Isaraelites, God's firstborn nation in the flesh]. The jews have some rather parculiar beliefs concernint the sons of god and the serpent/Satan in the OT, but then they get a lot of their interpretations from the pagan Babylonian Talmud.Originally Posted by wildboar
The fact that Jude mentions Michael, the Devil and the body of Moses is rather unique in the whole bible itself, and is the ONLY reference for this event.
God buried Moses Himself, so one can ask how did the Devil know where God buried him though we can say the Devil was everywhere I suppose, if he was an actual "being" walking around?In fact, what was the purpose of bringing up that particular point.Deut 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6 And He buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth Peor; but no one knows his grave to this day.I felt it might be a reference to Jesus arguing against the "body" of rulers/Priest in Jerusalem who sat on "Moses seat".
I think anytime "sons of God" are used refers to humans, like Adam and Eve, who were led astray by their fleshy desires, just as Israel was led astray [except for those Truly dedicated in honoring God fully].
I will study on this more as time allows, as it is a "unique" book in the NT to say the least. Any others have views on this from their own reading of it and the OT? Blessings.
We read in Genesis 6 that "when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were good; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose" (vv. 1-2).
Numerous interpretations have been suggested for these verses. Some have felt that the "sons of God" were fallen angels, though how angels could intermarry with men has never been explained. Jesus expressly states that angels do not marry (Matt. 22:30), and there is no evidence that angels have gender. Until recently, the angelic-marriage interpretation of Genesis 6 has been regarded as Jewish myth by Catholic and Protestant expositors. A few have suggested "demon-possessed men" as an alternative, but this is still rather unsatisfactory, because neither of these interpretations offer anything of relevance to the historical situation described in Genesis.
One other suggestion is that the "sons of God" are tyrannical rulers, engaged in rapine against defenseless women. This interpretation also fails because it is irrelevant to the context.
Last edited by InChristAlways; 07-18-2005 at 12:45 PM.
"There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"
Jordan's comments are stimulating. I cannot see where in Calvin's comments though the referral to men being the same as angels in verse 6 from verse 7. Calvin says that this is a warning to "men" that all the ungodly whether that be reprobate men or angels are damned by such wickedness. Jordan refers to the testimony of Genesis and I am in agreement that the text in Genesis does not refer to angels marrying mankind. How this can be used to vindicate "the sons of Seth" in the Jude text is too much. One could easily vindicate what is said in Jude by that of Matthew 25:40-42 or Galatians 1:7-9 with respect to the definition being that of "angels".
In Gill's exposition of Jude, he does not make any reference that this could mean the children of Seth, but interprets them as angels.
I do not think that this text is a struggle to understand as meaning angels when it says angels.
Last edited by ray kikkert; 07-19-2005 at 12:56 PM.
Greetings and salutations, el rana
21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.
Proverbs chapter 19
Ray:
The Greek word aggelos, which is often translated as angel, is often used to speak of human messengers. In the most literal sense, that's what aggelos means--messenger. It's used of John the Baptist and his followers and in references to other human beings as well. (Matt. 11:10; Mark 1:2; Luke 7:24,27; 9:52). There has always been a good deal of debate as to whether the seven angels of the seven churches in Revelation are referring to humans or not.
For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine
I have been attempting a study of Jude on this issue and since I do not believe there are angels that fell, I was looking at this more in context as the rebellion of Korah found in Numbers 16. Your thoughts?
There is some good discussion on this thread about Jude and the angels.
http://www.predestinarian.net/showth...ghlight=Jude+6
Also John for your reading pleasure:
With the permission of Robert Higby who we know here on the 5solas forum as BillTwisse; I have put together a compilation of posts from this thread and the Satanology thread with a few modifications to fit them together. The words in Italic and Bold font were added by me.
In reference to the ‘first estate’ of reprobate angles mentioned in Jude 1:6:
We have no other scriptures that clearly state what this 'first estate' was. Since the pre-creation view of angelic sin has no foundation in scripture, it is doubtful to assume that this might be referring to an event before Genesis 1 and 2. Many interpreters believe it refers to the 'sons of God' (angels) lusting after human women; desiring to pro-create with them far more than retaining their authoritative 'position' of rule in the spiritual realm. This is the interpretation that makes the most sense to me. It is that which is most in harmony with the overall teaching of scripture, however strange it sounds. We must realize that the realities of the spiritual realm are very real--yet foreign to our natural thinking. Also, angels are not 'pure spirits' in the sense of having absolutely no material existence. They are just not confined to a single material body restricted within the boundaries of human space.
I Pet. 3:18-20 also mentions the 'spirits in prison,' so we have to deal also with who those are. I believe it is referring to these same angels bound in hell, whom Christ went and preached final doom to after his resurrection. The keys of death and hell are used in both directions (to let souls out and to lock souls in). To say that it is ridiculous to propose that Christ entered hell as a victor: this really implies that he has not been exalted as Lord over it. If this is the case, a portion of non-elect angels (who abandoned their estate of rule on earth in the spiritual realm) were cast into judgment (Tarturus) at the flood and can no longer work for the devil in deceiving men.
The sin of these spirits who perished in the flood and cast into prison was unique and worthy of mention for a special reason. If it was simply more of the same type of sin as mankind in general is guilty of (unbelief, murder, theft, etc.)--why does Peter go out of his way to mention that Christ preached specially and uniquely to these condemned spirits?
The conclusion that I believe without question is that Jude 6 is post-Adam (post-fall). It certainly may be true that a better interpretation than mine is out there--of what this sin was. The two points that I cannot compromise on are these:
1. Eternal sin does not arise out of a heart of extreme and pure holiness (as Milton's fable would have us believe),
2. Eternal sin is different in its character and essence than temporal sin from which the elect are redeemed.
Jude and 2 Peter talk about the fact that the wicked angels 'sinned', not that they 'fell'. Big difference. As to the chains, for me the symbolism means the end of dominion and freedom to rule of any kind. That is true so far of only a portion of the demonic kingdom. Those who sinned in the time of Noah and those whom Christ cast into the pigs at Gadara fall into the 'chained' category; others, however, still maintain their limited territorial rule (their 'primary estate') for now. Of course not forever. This principle is no different that that of reprobate humans being 'cut short' in life ahead of the final judgment.
So then the 'angels in chains', in my view, are demons that have already been deprived of any further dominion and work on earth as opposed to those that are still ‘princes’ inhabiting specific humans or subservient rulers over specific territories (subservient, because their rule is limited under God's sovereignty).
It is important to understand that 'princes' in the Hebrew is used to refer to both humans and angels. In Daniel 10 Daniel prayed for assistance, but Michael the chief prince (top elect angel) was delayed 3 weeks in coming to him--since he had to go fight against the prince of Persia--this tells us a lot of the story about the 'war in heaven' and the spiritual realm. It is not as Milton described, pre-Adam and pre-creation. It is a real war waged in the midst of real people on earth. Elect angels fighting against non-elect angels.
Rev. 12 is worthy of further study also. The 'war in heaven' takes place in the context of the fight with the dragon with seven heads and ten horns, which is the post-fall dominion of the kingdom of Satan and his devils. Rev. 12 referring to the final casting of Satan and the demons out of heaven occurred at the victory of Christ's death and resurrection. Before then, they had access to the heavenly councils as described in the book of Job and Zechariah 3. Satan was the accuser of the brethren then. He no longer is today.
Therefore the ‘angels in chains’ could not be part of the 1/3 swept out of heaven to earth because they were cast into prison in the times of Noah.
Luke 10:18 is not a reference to an actual fall from heaven, rather it is as Calvin affirms, ‘Christ confirms what the apostles had related concerning the power of their preaching.’ It is a statement of the fulfillment of prophesy about Christ’s victory over the serpent (crushing the serpents head). Christ later proclaims this victory to the spirits in prison at the resurrection.
This by no means is exhaustive but it should give readers a brief peak into the biblical logic behind this view.
What makes you think this is referring to the rebellion of Korah?
For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine
Hi jm. I tend to agree with that biblically and can give you my view on it "symbolically".
Israel was the first born nation of God and became symbolically, the new "sons of God" after the Flood of Noah, a chosen people and symbolically they were the first "church" or assembly of "angels/messengers" on earth. In my view, one cannot be disobedient to God without first believing in God by hearing His Word and only then could they "fall"..1 peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while [the] ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves usThe OC Sons of God and I believe the use of "eden" may have represented the temple/Jerusalem inhabited by the Priests/rulers of Israel, but just a humble view. Blessings:1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children/sons of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.Pharaoh and his multitudes I view also as a "type" of what the corrupt rulers/priests became in Jerusalem, but again, that is my "symbolic" view.Isaiah 1:2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth! For the LORD has spoken: "I have nourished and brought up children["sons of God"], And they have rebelled against Me; 3 The ox knows its owner And the donkey its master's crib; [But] Israel does not know, My people do not consider."
Hosea 7:12 Wherever they go, I will spread My net on them; I will bring them down like birds of the air; I will chastise them According to what their congregation has heard. 13 " Woe to them, for they have fled from Me! Destruction to them, Because they have rebelled against Me! Though I redeemed them, Yet they have spoken lies against Me. 14 They did not cry out to Me with their heart When they wailed upon their beds. "They assemble together for grain and new wine, They rebel against Me; 15 Though I disciplined [and] strengthened their arms, Yet they devise evil against Me;
Joel 2:3 A fire devours before them, And behind them a flame burns; The land [is] like the Garden of Eden before them, And behind them a desolate wilderness; Surely nothing shall escape them.
Ezekiel 31:18 'To which of the trees in Eden will you then be likened in glory and greatness? Yet you shall be brought down with the trees of Eden to the depths of the earth; you shall lie in the midst of the uncircumcised, with [those] slain by the sword. This [is] Pharaoh and all his multitude,' says the Lord GOD."
Last edited by InChristAlways; 08-30-2005 at 12:21 AM.
"There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"
QUOTE:............... David Chilton makes the same point, showing that in the Old Testament the word mal'ak, often translated angel, is used for human prophets......Okay im not sure about the Greek aggelos Greek I dont study. But iv been studying and speaking Hebrew for quite some time now and I Never herd the word Malak/Melech used for ANYTHING besdies King and The King. People that follow the J4J movement for example just associate that word the messiah. And i know that an OLD losse translation of it is Angel, but iv never herd of the translation comming out human messenger or Human prophet any kind of Human! And no one would ever use that word for that today......Better yet ask a jewish friend or go to your closest Synagogue and they'll even tell you this.QUOTE:...............so here the Sethites saw that the forbidden daughters of Cain were good, and willfully intermarried with them, putting their own desires before holiness..............And as for this guy trying to pervert the Gen 6 story well sorry but i say theres no way around that one. IF the Sons of God werent angels in this account then why the giant children? Were all the decendents of Cain all shaquille oneal's? I say its ridiculous and next to blasphemous to try to change the Sons of God to Sethites or cainites in that story.QUOTE:...............Until recently, the angelic-marriage interpretation of Genesis 6 has been regarded as Jewish myth by Catholic and Protestant expositors................Since when? QUOTE:...............Jesus expressly states that angels do not marry (Matt. 22:30), and there is no evidence that angels have gender......................And yes Jesus did say that Angels do not marry. Ever borther to think why Satan fought against heaven? Pride, Sin, choice, Free will(Sorry Calvin)..take your pick! Possible that the Gen 6 Angels that are not sousped to be married or be sexual creatures maybe got a little Pride, Sin, choice, Free will feaver? And for Jude 6 that really gets me. I hate how people today try to brush off the enoch writings as some metaphorical poem when obviously Jude quoted RIGHT FROM THE TEXT. So the book was obviously around if not Cannon back then. I hear arugments like: Paul used poetry in his epistles to demonstrate things, doesnt mean the writings were inspired. Wich maybe true but they have NOTHING to do with the 2nd comming and the fall of the Angels like the Enoch writings. And i believe all 66 books are inspired without a doubt but keep in mind if we were born in ethiopia that Enoch would be another OT Cannon book with Gen, Ex, Lev. Plus if im not mistaken it was found with the OT in the Dead Sea Scrolls.Anyways i'll try and keep it short seeing it my 1st post being back. Cant wait for the feedback!!The_TRUTH Not The_Tooth
Last edited by The_truth22222; 08-30-2005 at 05:32 AM.
John 3:3~
In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
Re: The Angels in Jude 6
oh and can anyone help me out with how to quote. As you can tell i couldnt figure that out lol. like what do i type when im trying to Quote some one? And the spaces didnt work well eaither. so i donno??? Any help would be good. Thanks all
John 3:3~
In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
Truth, at the bottom of my posting there is a "quote" button. Click on it and look at the format of what is there both before and after the paragraph. That's the code to use. I was trying to give the exact format to use but it just kept formatting my response as a quote LOL.
Last edited by Tobias Crisp; 08-30-2005 at 07:26 AM.
Anthony Lawson, sinner saved by imputed righteousness
for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord -- Jesus Christ -- denying, and to remind you I intend, you knowing once this, that the Lord, a people out of the land of Egypt having saved, again those who did not believe did destroy; messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept, as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering. In like manner, nevertheless, those dreaming also the flesh indeed do defile, and lordship they put away, and dignities they speak evil of, yet Michael, the chief messenger, when, with the devil contending, he was disputing about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring up an evil-speaking judgment, but said, `The Lord rebuke thee!`and these, as many things indeed as they have not known, they speak evil of; and as many things as naturally (as the irrational beasts) they understand, in these they are corrupted; wo to them! because in the way of Cain they did go on, and to the deceit of Balaam for reward they did rush, and in the gainsaying of Korah they did perish. These are in your love-feasts craggy rocks; feasting together with you, without fear shepherding themselves; clouds without water, by winds carried about; trees autumnal, without fruit, twice dead, rooted up; wild waves of a sea, foaming out their own shames; stars going astray, to whom the gloom of the darkness to the age hath been kept. Young's Literal Translation Jude 1:4-16
wildboar,
I am looking at the context of verse 11-13 as those Jude has just talked about in the preveious verses. These judgments spoken of where written of men (leaders) long before. Korah was only one example Jude used:
Korah, along with the Reubenites Dathan, Abiram and On, along with 250 “princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown,” gathered themselves together against Moses and Aaron, and said, “Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the Lord?” Numbers 16:1-3. Here was a serious threat to the leadership of Moses over Israel. Korah wanted to push aside Moses, and take control of the congregation (church) of Israel.
Now, who was Korah? He was a cousin of Moses! They both descended from Kohath, one of the sons of Levi, Exodus 6:16-24. The Kohathites had a special responsibility in the sacrificial system: “Their charge shall be the ark, and the table [of shewbread], and the candlestick, and the altars, and the vessels of the sanctuary wherewith they minister, and the hanging [curtain], and all the service thereof,” Numbers 3:27-32. The other two sons of Levi, Gershon and Merari, had lesser responsibilities, Numbers 3:14-37. Korah had a leading responsibility in the tabernacle service!
Korah’s two chief henchmen were Reubenites, Dathan and Abiram. Were they ordinary laypersons in the congregation of Israel? No! They were both “famous in the congregation,” Numbers 26:9. They, along with the 250 princes who joined the rebellion, were “renowned in the congregation,” Numbers 1:16.
So, we see that the Truth is exactly the opposite of what is commonly taught by the leadership of many Churches of God. It is not the ordinary rank and file membership that is the problem in Korah-type rebellions. The problem is the struggle for power among the leadership. Korah and his followers were already great renowned leaders in the congregation of Israel. That wasn’t enough for them; they wanted more power, Numbers 16:9. An earthquake swallowed up Korah and his following, and a fire from God.
You will have to bear with me wildboar as I am not used to trying to write instead of speak my thoughts so I hope my whole thought comes out.
John
I am not sure if I am using your quote of what you believe or someone elses but here goes.
I do not believe this relates to Gen 6 and the writings of the gnostic book Enoch because of many reasons but I will be short. I believe that it is flawed thinking because of the various reasons of support given by those who think this:
1- Sons of God are only used in OT to mean angles (Job 1:6 2:1 and 38:7)
Not correct because other verses Deut. 14:1 and Hosea 1:10 use the same Hebrew word for Son as human Sons of God.
2- The Giants spoken of are the offspring of this unholy marriage and this is why God brought the flood to destroy them.
Why then does these giants show up after the flood in Numbers 13:33?
3- Why would fallen sinful angels be called Sons of God when the reprobate human race is not?
I believe the Destroyer (the serpent of old)was created to destroy along with all his messengers whether they be human or spirit.
This is why I don't entertain the fallen angel theory in Jude 6, Gen. 6:2, and 2 Peter 2:4.
John
Hello John i would like to know where your getting your info from. Since when is The book of Enoch a gnostic book? That is a old Jewish scripture that was quoted by Jude and perserved by the Essens in the Dead Sea Scrolls. At most its consitterd a pseudepigraphical or apocryphal. So i hate to bust you buble but the book of enoch wasnt found with the Gospel of Thomas in Nag Hammadi. It pre dates gnostic wirtings along with the rest of the OT. its far from being a gnostic wirting at all. Whos teaching you this?(3- Why would fallen sinful angels be called Sons of God when the reprobate human race is not?) Im sure Satan was called a Son of God before the fall. The Gen 6 angels had no reason not to be called the Sons of God untill they took wives for them selves and broke Matt. 22:30The_truth
John 3:3~
In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
Truth,
I use the term as mystical knowledge, not the official found Gnostic books.
Gnosticism is a blanket term for various mostly mystical religions and sects.
I must ask you the same question--where does the scripture call Satan a son of God. I only find his beginning as the crooked serpent formed by the hand of God. The subtle serpent in the garden. He was a murderer and liar from the beginning. I don't see the fall of any angel of light to an angle of darkness in the scripture.
So what you are saying above (they were sons of God until this sin) is that Angels are in a continual fall mode? Even to this date that if Angels sin they will be bound?
I try and look at hard verses without the baggage which has been passed on to the protestant church from the pagan beliefs of Rome. I have had a hard time seperating them and this is where I seem to be right now.
John
I think the descendants of Seth are still more likely given the interchangeability in the Scriptures with the Sons of God and aggelos.
The book of Enoch so-called that we have today likely bares little resemblance to the book mentioned in the Scriptures. There may be true statements within it, but it was not and is not cannonical. Paul quotes one of the Greek poets and possibly even Homer, but it does not mean that either are Holy Scripture.
For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine
I think the descendants of Seth are still more likely given the interchangeability in the Scriptures with the Sons of God and aggelos.
The book of Enoch so-called that we have today likely bares little resemblance to the book mentioned in the Scriptures. There may be true statements within it, but it was not and is not cannonical. Paul quotes one of the Greek poets and possibly even Homer, but it does not mean that either are Holy Scripture.Hi. Just as revelation and Ezekiel are highly Symbolic books, so is the book of Enoch, using signs, symbols, animals etc. I have only read through it once over a year ago just out of "curiosity", but one of these days I want to re-read it through again, as there is an "8 week" period in it that I want to study on, as it appears to show 2 destructions of the Temple of Solomon/dipersions of the jews/final consummation. The rest of that book is just too far out of my comprehension, as is most of the regular Bible, so I may never get to Enoch again in the future.
The gospel of Thomas is interesting also, but there again, one must be careful without getting "gnostic" tendencies and only after reading and studying the 66 books of today's Bible thouroughly.
The main emphasis is, do those "other" books harmonize with our complete Bible today.
You are correct in the danger of being led to false pagan beliefs, but a lot of those even came from the regular Bible itself because of the symbolic Divine nature or misinterpretation/mistranslation of it.
I wouldn't recommend reading the "other" books until thourougly reading through the Bible first. Blessings.
Chapter 92
1After this, Enoch began to speak from a book.
4Enoch then began to speak from a book, and said, I have been born the seventh in the first week, while judgment and righteousness wait with patience.
5But after me, in the second week, great wickedness shall arise, and fraud shall spring forth.
6In that week the end of the first shall take place, in which mankind shall be safe.
7But when the first is completed, iniquity shall grow up; and during the second week he shall execute the decree (131) upon sinners.
8Afterwards, in the third week, during its completion, a man (132) of the plant of righteous judgment shall be selected; and after him the Plant (133) of righteousness shall come for ever.
9Subsequently, in the fourth week, during its completion, the visions of the holy and the righteous shall be seen, the order of generation after generation shall take place, and a habitation shall be made for them.
Then in the fifth week, during its completion, the house of glory and of dominion (134) shall be erected for ever.
10After that, in the sixth week, all those who are in it shall be darkened, the hearts of all of them shall be forgetful of wisdom, and in it shall a Man (135) arise and come forth.
11And during its completion He shall burn the house of dominion with fire, and all the race of the elect root shall be dispersed. (136)
12Afterwards, in the seventh week, a perverse generation shall arise; abundant shall be its deeds, and all its deeds perverse. During its completion, the righteous shall be selected from the everlasting plant of righteousness; and to them shall be given the sevenfold doctrine of his whole creation.
13Afterwards there shall be another week, the eighth (137) of righteousness, to which shall be given a sword to execute judgment and justice upon all oppressors. 14Sinners shall be delivered up into the hands of the righteous, who during its completion shall acquire habitations by their righteousness; and the house of the great King shall be established for celebrations for ever.
Last edited by InChristAlways; 08-30-2005 at 02:59 PM.
"There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"
Wildboar,
You might be right. That's why I am hammering through this study right now. The context of Jude seem to be using the way of Cain, the deception of Balaam's error and the rebellion of Korah (not keeping within his own position of authority) as examples of the judgment of false teachers. Not some angelic beings sleeping with women. The biggest issue I wanted to get past was this fallen angel theory. Thanks for your input.
John
We were having a discussion about Michael and Jesus on another forum and some were saying Michael was "reincarnated" as Jesus and a poster posted this about MicahIf this translation is correct, Micah and Michael appear to have the same meaning? Is this just coincidence or is there some significance to this? If Jude 1 is taken literally, then Jesus "pre existed" as Michael at least when "Moses died" and was "buried by God". The children of Israel were a type of "angels" as they were chosen by God as a "special" people to Him but of course "fell" from the Laws of Sinai.quote from poster:.Micah denounced "the rulers who judge for reward and the priests who teach for hire and the prophets who divine for money." He taught of a day of freedom from superstition and priestcraft, saying: "But every man shall sit under his own vine, and no one shall make him afraid, for all people will live, each one according to his understanding of God."
Any help on this would be appreciated. Michael is shown in Daniel 12 as standing up for his people, Israel and is used in revelation also. Any thoughts on this? Thanks.
http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html
Miykayah {me-kaw-yaw'} Micah or Micaiah or Michah = "who is like God"
1) the 6th in order of the minor prophets; a native of Moresheth, he prophesied during the reigns of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah of Judah, and was contemporary with the prophets Hosea, Amos, and Isaiah
Miyka'el {me-kaw-ale'} Michael = "who is like God"
1) one of, the chief, or the first archangel who is described as the one who stands in time of conflict for the children of Israel
Jude 1:9 Whereas, Michael, the chief-messenger, when, with the adversary, disputing, he was reasoning about the body of Moses, durst not impose on him a defamatory sentence, but said--The Lord rebuke thee!
Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
Reve 2:13 "I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne [is.] And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas [was] My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.
Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands [watch] over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, [Even] to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book.
Reve 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,
Last edited by InChristAlways; 09-27-2005 at 12:26 PM.
"There are Signs of a new upsurge of interest in the Study of Scriptures: a New Readiness to Test Traditions, Search the Scriptures and Rightly Divide the Word "I am the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE and the RESURRECTION and no man can come to the FATHER but by ME"
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks