The "made sin" or "infused sinfulness" Heresy

[InChristAlways]

Originally Posted by bgamall
I am prepared at this point to say this following statement. 1. I know that Christ was separated from the blessings of the Father through the Spirit. 2. I know that Christ as to His being was never separated from the Father, that is, He never ceased to be God. 3. Christ never sinned and never committed a sin, on or off the cross.

Now, what I don't fully understand is if His human nature was separated from God. I ask this in the context of Paul saying He was made a curse and if that implies a separation.

Hi. Isn't Paul saying that it was to the Jews of Israel that he redeemed from the curse of The Law, while bringing LIGHT to the gentiles/nations.

So why would the "curse" be related to those outside the law? Paul was also a jew under the Law until Christ made him a "slave" for Him to bring LIGHT to both gentiles and "jews under the law".

In fact, Israel was the only one under a curse from what I have read. This is why those calling themselves "jews" have no idea what "redemtion" means in the OT and NT.

Malachi 3:9 You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, [Even] this whole nation.

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed [is] everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith.

Galatians 3:13 cristoV <5547> {CHRIST} hmaV <2248> {US}exhgorasen <1805> (5656) {RANSOMED} ek <1537> {FROM} thV <3588> {THE} kataraV <2671> {CURSE}tou <3588> {OF THE} nomou <3551> {LAW,} genomenoV <1096> (5637) {HAVING BECOME} uper <5228> {FOR} hmwn <2257> {US} katara <2671> {A CURSE,} gegraptai <1125> (5769) gar <1063> {FOR IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN,} epikataratoV <1944> {CURSED} paV <3956> {[IS] EVERYONE} o <3588> {WHO} kremamenoV <2910> (5734) {HANGS} epi <1909> {ON} xulou <3586> {A TREE,}

Here in Gal 4:5 it just says "law", not "the law" so I am a little confused on this.

Galatians 4:5 to redeem those who were under law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.

Ephesians 5:15 Look therefore carefully how ye walk, not as unwise, but as wise; 16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.

col 4:2 Continue earnestly in prayer, being vigilant in it with thanksgiving; 3 meanwhile praying also for us, that God would open to us a door for the word, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in chains, 4 that I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak. 5 Walk in wisdom toward those [who are] outside, redeeming the time.

exagorazo (Strong's 1805) occurs 4 times in 4 verses:

1805 exagorazo ex-ag-or-ad'-zo from 1537 and 59; to buy up, i.e. ransom; figuratively, to rescue from loss (improve opportunity):--redeem. 1537ek ek or ex ex a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote):59 agorazo ag-or-ad'-zo from 58; properly, to go to market, i.e. (by implication) to purchase; specially, to redeem:--buy, redeem.

[harald]

Steve,

As for Gal. 3:13-14. The "redeemed us from the curse of the law" (v. 13) is connected to "to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus" by the "that" of v. 14. Which "that" is HINA in the Greek, lit. "in order that", "to the end that". The "come" is a mistranslation, the GR. has "ginomai", therefore it should read "should come to pass" (aorist subjunctive). Here is my literal rendering

13 Christ bought us out from under the curse of the law, having by himself become a curse for us, for it has been written: ”Cursed is every one suspending himself on a piece of wood.”,
14 To the end that for the gentiles the said blessing of *Abraham should come to pass in Christ Jesus, to the end that the promise of the Spirit we would obtain through the faith.

So, it seems to me that somehow, in some sense, the (Galatian) gentiles were (had been) under the curse of the law. But Christ cancelled it in their case through His redemptive work.

As for Gal. 4:5 you're right that it says not "the law", but "law", anarthrous. Paul here specifically talks about the Galatian gentiles, they had not been under "the law", but under "law". I believe here NOMOS ("law") is carrying the sense of "a conditional regimen". In context Paul further defines this "law" as "the rudimentary principles of the world".

Harald

[InChristAlways]

So, it seems to me that somehow, in some sense, the (Galatian) gentiles were (had been) under the curse of the law. But Christ cancelled it in their case through His redemptive work.

As for Gal. 4:5 you're right that it says not "the law", but "law", anarthrous. Paul here specifically talks about the Galatian gentiles, they had not been under "the law", but under "law". I believe here NOMOS ("law") is carrying the sense of "a conditional regimen". In context Paul further defines this "law" as "the rudimentary principles of the world".

Hi harald. Thanks and I agree. Btw, what is your favorite translation? How about a form of "Adam" perhaps as "law"?

I do a lot of word studies and harmonzing, and this "curse" in revelation appears to be a little different from the "curse" of the Law or on the jews but that is a different topic.
I still have a lot to learn and thanks for helping me out on that. I love reading the Bible most of all!!! Blessings.

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse[#2652], but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.

There is one verse containing the word katanathema (Strong's 2652) .

Romans 9:1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed[#331] from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites,

2652 katanathema kat-an-ath'-em-ah from 2596 (intensive) and 331; an imprecation:--curse.2596 kata kat-ah' a primary particle; (prepositionally) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case (genitive, dative or accusative) with which it is joined):--about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, 331 anathema an-ath'-em-ah from 394; a (religious) ban or (concretely) excommunicated (thing or person):--accused, anathema, curse, X great.394 anatithemai an-at-ith'-em-ahee from 303 and the middle voice of 5087; to set forth (for oneself), i.e propound:--communicate, declare.

2671 katara kat-ar'-ah from 2596 (intensive) and 685; imprecation, execration:--curse(-d, ing).

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse[#2671] of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed [is] everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that to the nations the blessing of Abraham may come in Christ Jesus, that the promise of the Spirit we may receive through the faith.

Here in Gal 4:5 it just says "law", not "the law" so I am a little confused on this.

Galatians 4:5 to redeem those who were under law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

[harald]

Steve, you're welcome. At present I cannot say that I have any favourite (official) translation. Most often I have the e-Sword running and when need be I check/compare the English translations it has, mainly the formal equivalence versions, like Darby, YLT, ALT, WEB, UPDV etc. Some times one of them may be more literal than the others, another time another. Frankly, in those instances where I have made my own translation I prefer it, because even though it is often more awkward English it is nonetheless more literal.

You said

How about a form of "Adam" perhaps as "law"?


I'm afraid I lost you on this one. Could you explain what you meant?


Harald

[Tobias Crisp]

It looks like the specific topic of Christ being "made sin" has died down and that the last few posts have really been off topic. I would suggest that any other discussions, especially the one regarding Christ being "separated" from the Father, be taken to a new thread.

Thanks

[Calvinator]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the sin nature that is in all of us is past down through the male. Jesus did not have a earthly father and then did not have the sin nature. There is a difference from being made sin for us then being a sinner. Jesus became sin for us by have our sin imputed to Him. He became sin who knew no sin. He did not have the sin nature nor did He commit sin, so He was not a sinner.

[Tobias Crisp]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the sin nature that is in all of us is past down through the male. Jesus did not have a earthly father and then did not have the sin nature. There is a difference from being made sin for us then being a sinner. Jesus became sin for us by have our sin imputed to Him. He became sin who knew no sin. He did not have the sin nature nor did He commit sin, so He was not a sinner.

John, two things here 1) the whole issue of this thread is to counter those who have espoused a view that says Christ was made sin by something more than imputation, they in fact hold that sin was in some sense implanted into the person of Christ. 2) Prior to coming to this forum I had pretty much held to the view that you mention about Adamic sin coming through the male and that explains the reason for the virgin birth of Christ. I came to realize that I couldn't biblically defend that position. I would suggest reevaluating your view.

[Calvinator]

John, two things here 1) the whole issue of this thread is to counter those who have espoused a view that says Christ was made sin by something more than imputation, they in fact hold that sin was in some sense implanted into the person of Christ. 2) Prior to coming to this forum I had pretty much held to the view that you mention about Adamic sin coming through the male and that explains the reason for the virgin birth of Christ. I came to realize that I couldn't biblically defend that position. I would suggest reevaluating your view.

Well, I did asked to be corrected if I was wrong. I will do that.

[Calvinator]

Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This is through imputation, is it not?

How am I misunderstanding?

[Tobias Crisp]

Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

This is through imputation, is it not?

How am I misunderstanding?

It IS by imputation but for some this is not enough. I would suggest you read the thread that got this discussion going and then read through this one from the beginning. You then should have a thorough understanding of the issues and of it's importance. Here is the link to the original thread, it's in the archive:

http://www.predestinarian.net/showthread.php?t=2176

[lionovjudah]

I found this article. I do not endorse the site, but found this article well written.

http://www.letusreason.org/Wf23.htm


A.T Robertson states He made to be sin (hamartian epoie&#244;sen). The words “to be” are not in the Greek.
“Sin” here is the substantive, not the verb. God “treated as sin” the one “who knew no sin.” But he knew the contradiction of sinners (Heb 12:3). We may not dare to probe too far into the mystery of Christ’s suffering on the Cross, but this fact throws some light on the tragic cry of Jesus just before he died: “My God, My God, why didst thou forsake me?” (Matthew 27:46). (Robertson's Word pictures)
Robertson’s comment,” We may not dare to probe too far into the mystery of Christ’s suffering on the Cross.” Meaning its depth is left to God alone. But this is exactly what the faith teachers do, and because of this they come to the wrong conclusions. By going beyond what the Scripture states!
I John 3:5 says, “And you know he appeared to take away our sins, and in him, THERE IS NO SIN,” literally meaning that he had no sin before, during, nor after the cross. While many shift the atonement event to after the cross, there are some who may not understand that they are saying that there is NO salvation in the cross! But Paul states in 1 Corinthians1 that there is no salvation apart from the cross


Isaiah 53:5 tells us that the chastisement of our peace was laid “upon” Him. Isaiah 53:6 say’s the Lord laid our iniquity “on” him, not “in” him; there was no change in nature. Our sin was laid to his account. He bore its penalty as a punishment, as our substitution; he carried it away (fulfilling the typology of the scapegoat in Lev.16), not becoming sin or crushed by it. As it says in v.10, it pleased the Lord to bruise him. How? By being a lamb led to the slaughter. V.12 tells us he made intercession for the transgressors, which would be hard to do if you became one of them. Since God does not hear the prayer of a sinful man, especially the sin fullest human that ever lived. (the faith teachers he became worse than all having every sin imaginable).


Paul warns in 1 Cor. 12:3 “Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, (anathema) and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. “ Anathema meant a thing devoted to God without being redeemed, doomed to destruction (a sinner, satanic being). If Christ became sin he is accursed, which is exactly what the faith teachers are saying. This would be different than the curse of the law in Gal. 3:13-14 “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”) this shows he took the law away that made one guilty when they did not keep it perfectly. It also shows it occurred on the cross.( Col.2:14-15)

[Ugly_Gaunt_Cow]

Is it me or are people missing the real crux of the verse...

2Co 5:21 "...For He has made Him who knew no sin, to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."