The Sean Gerety / Trinity Foundation / Luba BLOWUP

[Brandan Kraft]

Scott, I'd agree with you for the most part. The problem is that all of us respected Sean. He was an honored guest, and he took us all completely by surprise. He did not live up to his reputation. If he had been someone we did not know or had little respect for, this conversation would have taken a completely different turn.

Because Sean is associated with Robbins, it was assumed that he would be honorable. I'm thankful though because I was brought to see that he is simply a cardinal in the Robbins papacy and not a man of real substance. What he did here on 5solas is disgusting (Rays words were "willingly slandering"), and I am very angry at him. I'm angry at John Robbins for his uninformed declaration of heterodoxy and love for sectarianism over the Gospel itself. And I'm especially angry at Luba for her deceitfulness, mischaracterizations of 5solas and its sponsors, and for her betrayal!

Brandan

[GraceAmbassador]

anyone can look of the quotations from Ray and see how many times I called the man "right and honorable brother". also, you can go back to the thread and see how many times I called him a brother and said that I would like for him to stay because he could still be an asset here and that I would learn a lot from him. check his answers. if a person does not want to take sides in this whole affair, it is perfectly all right with me... but to write that "things got out of hand" or that "Sean was treated in an unbalanced manner" is taking Sean's side in my view. taking sean's side is also not a problem with me but, because of the experience we had with Luba, I wish that everyone, friend or foe, would simply state their position clearly and not with subterfuges here. not that we will take any action (I won't), but so as to not hurt as much as Luba's surprise hurts...

Milt

[samohtwerdna]

Hi Milt,

I'm not talking anyones side - but trying to show that nothing was really accomplished through this thread. I imagine that Scott is right when he says that someone got your goat. But the issues of canonicty, historicity, churchianty, and almost all the other topics brought up in this thread where not dealt with in a profitable fashion.

I think they could and should be discussed further. And my personal conviction is that they would stand a better chance of being profitable taken one by one.

I think some atempted to do that during this swaree, but after the first three or four mudsling we (all of us) should have taken a more careful and precise approach.

Nobody won this debate, but what is worse, no or very little edification came from it. (My stomach felt ill reading through all this). I am not chiding anyone - simply saying we can do better. Sean, you, me - all of us.

And remember that Paul says "do nothing out of strife or vain glory"... "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."

[GraceAmbassador]

Hi Milt,

I'm not talking anyones side - but trying to show that nothing was really accomplished through this thread. I imagine that Scott is right when he says that someone got your goat. But the issues of canonicty, historicity, churchianty, and almost all the other topics brought up in this thread where not dealt with in a profitable fashion.

I think they could and should be discussed further. And my personal conviction is that they would stand a better chance of being profitable taken one by one.

I think some atempted to do that during this swaree, but after the first three or four mudsling we (all of us) should have taken a more careful and precise approach.

Nobody won this debate, but what is worse, no or very little edification came from it. (My stomach felt ill reading through all this). I am not chiding anyone - simply saying we can do better. Sean, you, me - all of us.

And remember that Paul says "do nothing out of strife or vain glory"... "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."

I am in full agreement with you! At this point, however, such agreement is very much null and void simply because these words of wisdom (one of the "gifts" by the way) came a bit late.

No one came here with such powerful words to stop the madness... Indeed I was not intending to discuss the canon of the scriptures. I was posting my position wherein I state that I seek for a better answer than the traditional "it is past because we have a perfect canon". When I mention my rejection of such an answer, usually from ignorants (not a bad word, since we are all ignorants of one thing or another) and the "labelesits" I get any name, anything that comes to their mind. I was not expecting that from Sean as he came here as a reputed "Bible Teacher" who worked with John Robbins. My mistake was to overrate his biblical knowledge...

At least, from my stand point, I was able to express my thoughts; the more I read the thread, the more I realize that there is no way anyone could have misconstrued my words as Sean did.

Where was everybody that now is presenting good advice? Good advice is only good if it is timely...

Milt

[samohtwerdna]

Where was everybody that now is presenting good advice? Good advice is only good if it is timely...

True enough. I was only yesterday told about the thread so I can't help my late coming. I am throwing in my two cents now - in an attempt to bring some good out of a rather difficult situation.

Sean may not participate seeing that he has been banned, and probably would have left anyway, but there are still some that would like to further discover the possibilities of some of the topics.

If all we do is lament at what we thought Sean was going to be and sulk over what names we've been called rather than peruse the truth and the edification of all - then we allow Sean or anyone else for that matter the upper hand.

Come, let us call this horse dead. Shoot it square in the head - and praise God together - After all Paul said "if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." The Glory of the Gospel can not be undone by the dirty hands that carry it around.

Signing off...
May you all have a blessed Lord's day worshiping God and Christ. (even those of you who don't hold to a Lord's Day, may God frustrate your convictions with love abounding and grace unmeasured and rest like you've never rested, when you rise up with all the saints to worship him tomorrow!)


Andrew

[GraceAmbassador]

Come, let us call this horse dead. Shoot it square in the head - and praise God together - After all Paul said "if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." The Glory of the Gospel can not be undone by the dirty hands that carry it around.

Another word of wisdom! I thought about the analogy myself!

Milt

[Ugly_Gaunt_Cow]

Hi Milt,

I'm not talking anyones side - but trying to show that nothing was really accomplished through this thread. I imagine that Scott is right when he says that someone got your goat. But the issues of canonicty, historicity, churchianty, and almost all the other topics brought up in this thread where not dealt with in a profitable fashion.

I think they could and should be discussed further. And my personal conviction is that they would stand a better chance of being profitable taken one by one.

I think some attempted to do that during this swaree, but after the first three or four mudsling we (all of us) should have taken a more careful and precise approach.

Nobody won this debate, but what is worse, no or very little edification came from it. (My stomach felt ill reading through all this). I am not chiding anyone - simply saying we can do better. Sean, you, me - all of us.

And remember that Paul says "do nothing out of strife or vain glory"... "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."

Yes, agreed.

There's been MANY times where I've been guilty of not setting a shinning example on this site, and to my disgrace. But what's done is done and I can't change the mistakes I've made, but rather learn from them and prepare for the future.

We need to be welcoming of all people who desire to dialog here, in hope they will come to share Truth. But, we also need to be diligent in setting an example of how far we are willing to let issues carry on. When we allow ourselves to become distracted by foolish irrelevancies we end up with too much turmoil and not enough resolution.

Please don't mistake me in any way. I am not approving of, nor lessening the severity of the effects of Sean's unmerited behavior. Check the tale of tape and let the facts speak for themselves. What I'm suggesting is that in the future, when a topic branches off into other categories, we should categorize them individually so they may be properly addressed for the edification of all who visit, and at the same time, systematically refute those who are in opposition. Personally, I get great enjoyment (pride?) from witnessing my brothers exercise God-imparted knowledge to the upset of those who attempt to spread lies.

As for Luba, I've never really interacted with her beyond a few posts so I'm not at a big loss right now. She was clear that she became opposed to some of the concepts being fleshed out at 5solas. Sadly, she mistook our attempts to study Deeper Spiritual Truths as dogma, and went off the deep-end. To me that sounds a little unstable, which we all are at times. However, she had plenty of opportunity to question and debate everything that was said by all parties involved.

The fact she flipped out last second and branded us heretical goes to show something we obviously didn't see before- she was uniformed as to what was being discussed and mistook it as some kind of agenda to propagate heresy against Jesus, failing to see that we are basically trying to push ourselves to come to a greater understanding of the Great "I AM", basing our efforts upon His given revelation to the elect - The Holy Bible.

If Luba feels there is nothing to be learned here, and that her comfort zone rests elsewhere, then I pray the LORD be glorified in whatever He has chosen to do with the situation as it currently stands. I just pray He opens her eyes and forces her to look at the facts, and base her judgment accordingly; not on regurgitated man-wisdom.

Everyone here always has my support 100%, as long as it's justified. Being a younger and less mature disciple than most here, I'm usually forced to sit in the background and absorb what's being said. But, when needed, and if possible; I will, LORD willing, be the first to watch the backs of those whom I love. So, once again, to make sure I'm not being misunderstood, my suggestions were made as a means to learn from this unnecessary drama and to better the function of this forum as a whole.

That's all.

[Ugly_Gaunt_Cow]

Where was everybody that now is presenting good advice?

Touché!

You're right. I was here, but remained inactive - only out of ignorance though.

Sean' statics of debate were unskilled - at best. Although, he probably has enough of his "type" of knowledge to make me appear as thought I don't know what I'm talking about(which will shut me down pretty fast) because outside of what the bible says, I'm totally clueless.

In the future, if I have a billion-ollar idea, I'l speak up when it's needed.