Engelsma Debates with Don Preston on Voice of Reason

[wildboar]

I was searching for something, don't remember what now but came across a thing on preteristarchive.com about a debate this(?) Sunday between David Engelsma and Don Preston. I was just wondering if anyone had any info about this. I don't remember seeing or hearing anything about it elsewhere. http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/

[InChristAlways]

I was searching for something, don't remember what now but came across a thing on preteristarchive.com about a debate this(?) Sunday between David Engelsma and Don Preston. I was just wondering if anyone had any info about this. I don't remember seeing or hearing anything about it elsewhere. http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/

Hi WB. That is an interesting site. It appears the preterists can really use Josephus to back up a lot of the preterists view of Biblical fulfillment on Israel and other than his writings, there is not much on that big event[even the NT is silent on it].

Josephus' two books] are two of our prime sources for the history of this period. And Josephus gives a kind of catalog for what the major groups are within first century Judaism.... He talks about the Sadducees, the Pharisees, the Essenes........

I have yet to read them but have read some of it here at a site I found. http://www.davieapostolicchurch.com/studies/destuct/ Pretty gruesome stuff and amost like reading revelation itself and the OT prophecies!!.

........While Jerusalem was a prey to these ferocious and devouring factions, every part of Judea was scourged and laid waste by bands of robbers and murderers, who plundered the towns; and, in case of resistance, slew the inhabitants, not sparing either women or children.....The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover ;........ ! At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival. On the appearance of the Roman army, the factious Jews united, and, rushing furiously out of the city repulsed the tenth legion, which was with difficulty preserved..

The main debates over the centuries have usually been on the "nature of the Resurrection", as Paul's epistles on the consummation/Day of the Lord differ from the Olivet Discourse in the Gospels in so many ways because of his explaining our resurrection in Christ. The Jewish Rulers were also divided on it[and probably are to this day] and that saved Paul from a "whooping" by them at one time.

One of the first times that word is used is in Luke 2:34 concerning Israel[the "first church of the Flesh"] and I am doing studies on that[Valley of the Bones in Ezekiel for example]. I don't really know anything about the views of those persons, and I will probably not be interested in listening to it. LOL.

Luke 2:34 Then Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary His mother, "Behold, this [Child] is destined for the fall and rising up[#386] of many in Israel, and for a sign which will be spoken against

Reve 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection[#386].

386 anastasis an-as'-tas-is from 450; a standing up again, i.e. (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, genitive case or by implication, (its author)), or (figuratively) a (moral) recovery (of spiritual truth):--raised to life again, resurrection, rise from the dead, that should rise, rising again.450 anistemi an-is'-tay-mee from 303 and 2476; to stand up (literal or figurative, transitive or intransitive):--arise, lift up, raise up (again), rise (again), stand up(-right).

[ray kikkert]

Hi WB. That is an interesting site. It appears the preterists can really use Josephus to back up a lot of the preterists view of Biblical fulfillment on Israel and other than his writings, there is not much on that big event[even the NT is silent on it].I have yet to read them but have read some of it here at a site I found. http://www.davieapostolicchurch.com/studies/destuct/

This debate was not well put forth by "Voice of Reason" . It was not set up for hard hitting discussion. Too many commercial breaks. Both parties were limited to stating their points and then making refuting remarks. They did not interact well. The discussion turned to lexicons later on and terminated fruitful discussion.

Mr. Preston came off as a salesman rather than one interested in advocating the truth of eschatology. Interesting since Mr. Preston before being a preterist stated he had embraced the amill position previously. When I heard that, his credibility wained much more than his salesmen pitch.

Prof. Engelsma dealt with the Scriptural references and put these to Mr. Preston point blank. Yet I maintain that both men were hog tied due to the way "Voice of Reason" conducted the debate with no direct interaction and commercials manifold.

Things would have to change in order for fruitful discussion to be put forth where both these men could directly deal with his opponents statements straightway.

If interested in the debate, you can still access it through this link:

http://www.hudsonvilleprc.org/audio/Debate.mp3

[Brandan Kraft]

I was asked by Voice of Reason to debate Preston on the radio. I turned it down as I thought it would be a joke. Turns out I wasn't too far off, right Ray?

[ray kikkert]

I was asked by Voice of Reason to debate Preston on the radio. I turned it down as I thought it would be a joke. Turns out I wasn't too far off, right Ray?

Yes, it is weak to use a reformation style debate on air. The host ought to be moderator and fire questions upon both parties that his listeners may be interested to know about. You also learn much of what the moderator thinks at the same time. Questions from listeners should be entertained as well.