The purpose of this thread is to discuss the studies on the Scrolls posted in this forum and other issues surrounding the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the studies on the Scrolls posted in this forum and other issues surrounding the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Bob, I look forward to the studies and the discussion. At this point, I really don't have much to add.
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
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I finally received my copy of the Dead Sea Scrolls : A New Translation by Michael Wise! Any recommendations on where to start Bob?
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
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Read the time line then start with the Thanksgiving Psalms then read the rest.
Yes, the Hodayot (Thanksgiving Psalms) are chapter 3 and there is a section of the sectarian charter (chapter 5 pp. 129-131) that is also evidenced to have been written by the original predestinarian Teacher. But start by reading the unforgettable Prolegomena on pp. 3-37 which is worth its weight in gold!
I just got the Boccaccini book today (Beyond the Essene Hypothesis) and am working my way through it. It is amazing how much our Protestant doctors of theology have withheld from us!
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
This makes for interesting study and reading. Thanks for the info.Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby
Last night at bible study we finished up Daniel chapter 8. It is interesting that Calvin for one calls upon the history of the Maccabee's to define the historical events at the time of Antichonas Ephipanes(spelling?) and the polluting of the temple and subsequent cleansing of it later. The history of the church of Christ in those 400 years before His incarnation do offer insight and these different historical books do offer some benefit.
I must admit , I am behind in reading all the material presented thus far, but working on it.
Thanks again for the info.
Greetings and salutations, el rana
21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.
Proverbs chapter 19
Everyone,
What I'm reading from the introduction is already blowing me away Bob. Basically, these scrolls have only been available to us for a few years! The scholars who originally were given the task to release the information to the public kept these details secret from us for so long. When they were finally were released to the public (nearly 50 years after their discovery!), they are almost completely ignored. Why? WHY?! Unbelieveable.
The snippets that I have read so far from the scrolls (that are apparently completely IN LINE WITH SCRIPTURE) are some of the clearest examples of predestinarian teaching that I have ever seen. I am so excited! Extremely excited!
Brandan
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
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Brandan:
That pretty much tells you where the heart of these "theologians" is and where their passions lay!
If the dead sea scrolls were somehow at odds with the Bible and supporting some liberal view, I guarantee you that it would be posted in every "christian" University class room and being propagated from every pulpit in liberal America!
But, alas, NO! It supports the well founded biblical notion of predestination and God's Sovereignty, so, the only thing these "theologians" can do is to downplay the scrolls importance and keep it away from the average joe, such as myself!
Milt
Grace Ambassador
A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace
My pledge to other members:
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11
I read the article from The Gospel Truth and couldn’t quite understand from what mindset he was coming from when he gave his exegesis of scripture. He believes it is important to understand the passages he gave from a Hebrew/moral frame of reference and not a Greek frame of reference. Is he arguing for or against “original sin” It seems he is saying that it comes down to a ‘moral ability’ to defeat sin. Was it the influence of Greek Philosophy that contributed then to the doctrine of original sin and will we be discussing that in this study? I’m probably not making myself clear enough for you to even answer so tell me if so and I can think it through in a different way.
Is this part of the difference we are reading about in the books under discussion (I have them both), the free-will of man to overcome original sin by his own moral ability and the predestination of all things, including sin by God?
My favorite three words so far in the scrolls…………YOU HAVE DETERMINED!!
Eileen~
"To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby
Eileen,
You are making perfect sense!
This appears to be another example of my greatest weakness; posting the work of someone making an argument that I accept without also explaining the gross errors (otherwise) in the position of that same source. Unlike many, I go anywhere to find truth. Such sources are often comparable to the ass that spoke God's word to Balaam.
The author of The Gospel Truth is a Finneyist and extreme free-will anti-predestinarian. I only posted his observations to illustrate that the anti-Calvinists seem to be the only ones who perceive Augustine's absolute devotion to Neo-Platonic Greek philosophy. Lutherans have also pointed this out but never the Calvinist scholars! The author of the gospel truth website opposes Gus on the opposite side of his Neoplatonic hybrid than I do; nevertheless, he points out the truth regarding the fact that Gus merely 'christianized' the philosophy of Plotinus.
I hope this helps! --Bob
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Bob,
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I certainly did see in the begiining of the article the devotion to Greek Philosophy and found that very eye opening. It becomes more and more evident that in some instances it has been the blind leading the blind to get where we are at!
I've never been exposed to that extreme free-will thinking....thankfully, hence the confusion but I will keep that in mind in the future because I knew that you didn't adhere to his scriputre exegesis! Just sort it out, eileen!
Thanks again!
Eileen~
"To those who have no works-phobia, I will state that you are not trembling before the gospel" Robert R. Higby
One of the most amazing facets about the Scrolls is this character.
What is known about him? Hypothetically and historically.
And how does it relate to Jesus?
And how did the Qumran community relate to Jesus ( did they have knowledge of Him ), even if they did not understand that He was their Messiah and the True Teacher of Righteousness.
I have just ordered the book that Darth has recently aquired, although it is the revised edition with added books.
This is a fascinating forum, you do not see many like this who have the desire to look back to this part of history.
And I love history!
What is known about him? Hypothetically and also the historic thoughts about him by the Qumran community.
And how does it relate to Jesus?
And how did the Qumran community relate to Jesus ( did they have knowledge of Him, were their writings ever influenced by what happened in Jerusalem during the time of Pilate? ), even if they did not understand that He was their Messiah and the True Teacher of Righteousness.
May the scrolls of the Dead Sea, never take our eyes off the Promised Messiah, 'Jesus, who is called Christ' from Nazareth.
In what documents of the Dead Sea scrolls is the Teacher of Righteousness mentioned? What are the approximate dates of these writings? I believe these questions would help us begin to ascertain an idea of his relation to the Essenes community, as well as his importance.
Do we currently have any outright information about his person or is everything we may have thus far mere speculation?
Scott.
"Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so..."
I'm covering this question in my next study. As soon as I get over a most annoying sickness that has practically knocked me out cold: I ate contaminated & undercooked hamburger in a restaurant on Friday. My advice to all: check the meat before you eat!
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Hoping you get better soon Bob. That is nasty.
Greetings and salutations, el rana
21There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.
Proverbs chapter 19
Please don't tell me it was Wendy's...I had an undercooked chicken sandwich from there and was sick for a day and a half!
Have you guys ever heard of America's favorite sport:
SUING?
Milt
Grace Ambassador
A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace
My pledge to other members:
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11
Yes, I have done it once on an insurance case--where a company just plain would not own up to its responsibilities! A year and a half of miserable dealings with lawyers to get nothing but payment for my medical bills. I won't go down that road again. In the present situation it is a waste of time anyway--since I can't prove my case & am getting better already! I just advise all to check the meat that they purchase from fast food restaurants before eating. If it isn't fully cooked, return it! When I lived in Wisconsin years ago, raw beef sandwiches were a delicacy in those parts. However, they were made with very high quality cuts of ground steak and did not make people sick. It is the cheap stuff having intestinal meat ground in that will do a person in.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Eating steaks rare is fine but not hamburgers. Specialist say that steaks do not develop common bacteria inside. Only in the surface but they die in the fire. Hamburgers, though, they are a fertility party for bacteria! They have to be brown inside and out!
A funny note: if anyone comes here for the first time and see these two lasts posts in this thread they will think that we are eating "Dead Sea Steaks"...
Milt
Milt
Grace Ambassador
A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace
My pledge to other members:
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11
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