The epistle of James

[Calvinator]

I was just reading in the question and answer section and I came across Q&A about the epistle of James and that it should not be part of the canon. I never really thought about it until now. It does appear to be a book of works.

Every atom in the Universe is in it's correct place and doing just what it was intended to too. So my question is this, why did God include it in the canon? To mislead the infidel?

I am looking forward to everyone's response.

Thanks

[Brandan Kraft]

why did God include it in the canon? To mislead the infidel?

Obviously - as many people have been misled by it! God is glorified in all things

[GraceAmbassador]

I was just reading in the question and answer section and I came across Q&A about the epistle of James and that it should not be part of the canon. I never really thought about it until now. It does appear to be a book of works.

Every atom in the Universe is in it's correct place and doing just what it was intended to too. So my question is this, why did God include it in the canon? To mislead the infidel?

I am looking forward to everyone's response.

Thanks

If the principle of fairness and cosistent thinking is applied, the premise of your question should go for everything that is "bad" in the world. That includes the execution of God's pioneers beginning with the earliest Apostles, the apostasy of the Roman Catholic Church and its rule for centuries, the existence of cults within the bracket of "christianity", the existence of some televangelists who act in the name of God (and use James for their doctrine) and other not so good things.

You also have to include in the premise of your question some heretical jewish traditions, some pagan beliefs that plagued the early Christians, including the very own disciples of Jesus and other things that God used to manifest His global and eternal plan.

Then, you must answer who is the determining agent who can call James canonical that assert beyond any reasonable doubt, almost in a supernatural way, that James was "placed by God" in the canon because it is canonical. It is not whether God put it there or not; we believe God rules all things. The question is: is it there because it is what He inspired it? Or is it there because God, who never collects the bill when men shows up to pay, but rather demands full payment in His own timing, will finally use the contents of James to judge many who have departed from justification by faith alone? Did God put it in there to blind the eyes of some reprobates? I am not saying that those who believe the inspiration of James are reprobates; but I am saying that those who use James to teach a hybrid combination of faith and works as the way to salvation may be. God is using James as He uses everything to fulfill His plan; it does not mean that He endorsed or inspired the "faith plus works" teaching.

A long answer for a short question since it is important to approach the premise of your question before any answer is given.

Milt

[Kentucky Kid]

Paul was chosen by God to declare the gound of salvation; James was chosen by God to declare the evidences of salvation. Concerning JUSTIFICATION: Paul ( the ground )- declares it to be the righteousness of Christ; James ( the evidence ) - declares that proof of justification is more than a mere profession ( James 2:21, 24 ). FAITH: Paul ( the ground )- saving faith believes the righteousness of Christ; James ( the evidence )- declares that just a profession is not saving faith ( James 2:14....). WORKS: Paul ( the ground )- without works, legal efforts excluded: James ( the evidence )- good works accompanies saving faith, is fruit unto God while a mere profession is fruit onto death. Read Acts 15 "The Jerusalem Council" and we will find Paul and James believing the same gospel........SO MANY profess Christ! But once one is challanged by another elect to " make their calling and election sure " ( II Peter 1:10: "produce a guarantee") don't we see them "falling by the wayside"! This is what I believe the book of James is about.........KK

[GraceAmbassador]

Paul was chosen by God to declare the gound of salvation; James was chosen by God to declare the evidences of salvation. Concerning JUSTIFICATION: Paul ( the ground )- declares it to be the righteousness of Christ; James ( the evidence ) - declares that proof of justification is more than a mere profession ( James 2:21, 24 ). FAITH: Paul ( the ground )- saving faith believes the righteousness of Christ; James ( the evidence )- declares that just a profession is not saving faith ( James 2:14....). WORKS: Paul ( the ground )- without works, legal efforts excluded: James ( the evidence )- good works accompanies saving faith, is fruit unto God while a mere profession is fruit onto death. Read Acts 15 "The Jerusalem Council" and we will find Paul and James believing the same gospel........SO MANY profess Christ! But once one is challanged by another elect to " make their calling and election sure " ( II Peter 1:10: "produce a guarantee") don't we see them "falling by the wayside"! This is what I believe the book of James is about.........KK

Hi KK!

Please, do read Acts 15 in the Jerusalem Council and what James recommended in the end of it and what Paul writes about (eating sacrificed meat) in 1 Cor 8. There is a difference in beliefs; a very clear one.

Milt

[Kentucky Kid]

Milt, I do agree there is a difference, but is it a difference of another gospel?........KK

[GraceAmbassador]

Milt, I do agree there is a difference, but is it a difference of another gospel?........KK

NO!

But it is a difference that it is important:

James establishes not eating meats as a condition for one to be considered a "christian" thus judging a "christian" by the way he follows Jewish rites and tradition.

Paul, the Apostle of Grace, establishes that that it is not important... Gentiles have freedom.

I believe the same position of James was carried out to his book. And if James wrote the epistle that bears his name he demonstrates the same contemption for pure Grace. (But I don't believe that James wrote at least chapter 2).

I don't want and will not rehash the discussion on James. I will respect anyone's position on the issue.

Milt

[Kentucky Kid]

Thanks Milt! I always saw "meats" , etc. an issue between "weak" and "mature" brethren. I will have to study the issue more. About the issue of the book of James: I must have missed that being a rookie on the PN.....maybe it's in the old archives!.......KK

[Brandan Kraft]

Go to the free archives - many recent threads on this topic KK. I agree with Luther's position when he first approached the subject.

[Kentucky Kid]

Thanks Brandan.....if someone remains ignorant on this website it's their own fault.........I love this website! I just wish I had more time to surf........KK

[beloved57]

At this point I believe James is inspired by God...

[beloved57]

Hi KK!

Please, do read Acts 15 in the Jerusalem Council and what James recommended in the end of it and what Paul writes about (eating sacrificed meat) in 1 Cor 8. There is a difference in beliefs; a very clear one.

Milt

I believe James was urging the brethern on to a greater degree of spiritual maturity 1n acts 15: 28, 29 not a salvation issue, and of course Paul neither was dealing with a salvation issue, but a practise by believers, paul would have recognized such believers who had issues with what to eat and not to eat as weak... see rom 14:1-3

[Whammer]

I believe James was urging the brethern on to a greater degree of spiritual maturity 1n acts 15: 28, 29 not a salvation issue, and of course Paul neither was dealing with a salvation issue, but a practise by believers, paul would have recognized such believers who had issues with what to eat and not to eat as weak... see rom 14:1-3

Hi Darryl, I consistently enjoy your posts as you and I grow in this forum together. My wife and I just finished our reading of the book of Acts again just a few days ago and we went from there right into the book of Galatians. I am constantly amazed at how long it really took for most of the apostels themselves to see what Paul saw in the new convenant. I re-read Milt's post, or really what he encouraged to be read, and I see (I think I see what Milt is saying, but I dont want to speak for him...and Milt if I seemed to have done that or have, please forgive me brother ) in these words..........Acts. 15:28-29............For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements:......that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols............in cantrast to what Paul says 1 Cor 8:8.......Food will NOT commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. And I know this sits in the context of not taking our christian liberty too far, but it sounds like James here is too close to this catergory in 1 Tim. 4:1-4.....which is why though I find biblical wisdom in the book of James.......I bite my nails in other places
I am open to correction here at the forum brothers, either publically or privately, in posting my thoughts I am saying I am open again here brothers........so sharpen me up by God's grace

[Mickey]

Discussion of this exact subject starts in the following thread at post # 11.

http://www.predestinarian.net/showthread.php?t=2892

[beloved57]

Hi Darryl, I consistently enjoy your posts as you and I grow in this forum together. My wife and I just finished our reading of the book of Acts again just a few days ago and we went from there right into the book of Galatians. I am constantly amazed at how long it really took for most of the apostels themselves to see what Paul saw in the new convenant. I re-read Milt's post, or really what he encouraged to be read, and I see (I think I see what Milt is saying, but I dont want to speak for him...and Milt if I seemed to have done that or have, please forgive me brother ) in these words..........Acts. 15:28-29............For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements:......that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols............in cantrast to what Paul says 1 Cor 8:8.......Food will NOT commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. And I know this sits in the context of not taking our christian liberty too far, but it sounds like James here is too close to this catergory in 1 Tim. 4:1-4.....which is why though I find biblical wisdom in the book of James.......I bite my nails in other places
I am open to correction here at the forum brothers, either publically or privately, in posting my thoughts I am saying I am open again here brothers........so sharpen me up by God's grace

Acts 15:28, for it seemed good to the holy spirit and us James here seems to team up with the Holy Spirit in giving this advise

[Whammer]

Acts 15:28, for it seemed good to the holy spirit and us James here seems to team up with the Holy Spirit in giving this advise

Yeah, I did see that too, I'm going to read the thread Michael shared.

[GraceAmbassador]

Acts 15:28, for it seemed good to the holy spirit and us James here seems to team up with the Holy Spirit in giving this advise

Exactly! Then one MUST conclude, since the Bible does not have contradictions, that Paul's teaching, the Revelation he received from God progressed from the teaching of the baby ek-klesia which was very much funcitioning still under the auspices of the Synagogue during the Council of Jerusalem. The Gospel of Paul, which he calls, my Gospel, is the Gospel of Grace which was not fully yet received when the baby ek-klesia was a group of converted Jews. (Paul called it "the mystery hidden through the ages only NOW--his revelation--revealed)

One cannot deny this progression whereas denying a contradiction between the teaching of James in Acts 15:28 and Paul in 1 Cor 8. In other words, if there is no progression, then there MUST BE CONTRADICTION. The argument of paradox is unacceptable because paradox and contradictions are two different things. If one says something contradicting the other, it is a contradiction and not a paradox. If the ek-klesia would have had the full revelation of the Gospel of Grace in the Council of Jerusalem, there would NEVER be a need for the epistles of Romans, Ephesians and Galatians to name a few.

Also note that Jesus told His early disciples that He had somethings to tell them that they could not yet endure; It could not be His death and way of death because that He had already told them as to what and how it would be. It had to be something forthcoming; perhaps something that as Jews they could not bear: G R A C E! As taught later by Paul.

People have left this Forum in the past because of our (my) stance in the doctrines of Paul as being the crowning of all revelations. If not superior altogether, the Epistles of Paul are at least the one under which the other writers of the Epistles to the Ek-klesia should be scrutinized as to their validity to us GENTILES and the Ek-klesia called out of the Synagogue. The Epistles of Peter also have a lot of "jewishness"; such texts are inspired but note that the "killing of Lambs" was also once inspired but God ended that era when The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world was revealed and came in the flesh (I am talking about Jesus Christ). This, therefore, indicates that the fact that something was inspired for a season, it does not mean that it had to be the norm forever as a command. Otherwise we would still be sacrificing lambs! God inspired the Jewish writers to write in the Jewishness for a purpose and a time until He revealed to a certain former murderer, Saul, turned Paul, the Revelation of His GRACE!

Reflect on this!

Again, this is all discussed in the thread Mike suggested.

Milt

[Whammer]

Amen Milt. And I also read the thread that Michael refered us to and enjoyed that very much, and I think you summed up my thoughts well Milt in your last post as I also am coming to a brighter understanding of truth

[beloved57]

Exactly! Then one MUST conclude, since the Bible does not have contradictions, that Paul's teaching, the Revelation he received from God progressed from the teaching of the baby ek-klesia which was very much funcitioning still under the auspices of the Synagogue during the Council of Jerusalem. The Gospel of Paul, which he calls, my Gospel, is the Gospel of Grace which was not fully yet received when the baby ek-klesia was a group of converted Jews. (Paul called it "the mystery hidden through the ages only NOW--his revelation--revealed)

One cannot deny this progression whereas denying a contradiction between the teaching of James in Acts 15:28 and Paul in 1 Cor 8. In other words, if there is no progression, then there MUST BE CONTRADICTION. The argument of paradox is unacceptable because paradox and contradictions are two different things. If one says something contradicting the other, it is a contradiction and not a paradox. If the ek-klesia would have had the full revelation of the Gospel of Grace in the Council of Jerusalem, there would NEVER be a need for the epistles of Romans, Ephesians and Galatians to name a few.

Also note that Jesus told His early disciples that He had somethings to tell them that they could not yet endure; It could not be His death and way of death because that He had already told them as to what and how it would be. It had to be something forthcoming; perhaps something that as Jews they could not bear: G R A C E! As taught later by Paul.

People have left this Forum in the past because of our (my) stance in the doctrines of Paul as being the crowning of all revelations. If not superior altogether, the Epistles of Paul are at least the one under which the other writers of the Epistles to the Ek-klesia should be scrutinized as to their validity to us GENTILES and the Ek-klesia called out of the Synagogue. The Epistles of Peter also have a lot of "jewishness"; such texts are inspired but note that the "killing of Lambs" was also once inspired but God ended that era when The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world was revealed and came in the flesh (I am talking about Jesus Christ). This, therefore, indicates that the fact that something was inspired for a season, it does not mean that it had to be the norm forever as a command. Otherwise we would still be sacrificing lambs! God inspired the Jewish writers to write in the Jewishness for a purpose and a time until He revealed to a certain former murderer, Saul, turned Paul, the Revelation of His GRACE!

Reflect on this!

Again, this is all discussed in the thread Mike suggested.

Milt

Friend , grace was not the revealation, all saints were fmiliar with grace from adam till now, even the patriarch David knew about grace see the 23rd psalm and many others, James knew about salvation by grace, he just condemn circumcision in verse 15:14..he preached election, he understood some o.t prophecy about the out calling of gentiles(which was a mystrey to peter..vs 18, he talks about God`s predestination, in vs 24, he denies saying circumcision is needed to be saved, I believe you are way off on this my friend, but I don`t want to argue, believe what you want to believe..

[Brandan Kraft]

Friend , grace was not the revealation, all saints were fmiliar with grace from adam till now, even the patriarch David knew about grace see the 23rd psalm and many others, James knew about salvation by grace, he just condemn circumcision in verse 15:14..he preached election, he understood some o.t prophecy about the out calling of gentiles(which was a mystrey to peter..vs 18, he talks about God`s predestination, in vs 24, he denies saying circumcision is needed to be saved, I believe you are way off on this my friend, but I don`t want to argue, believe what you want to believe..

Well I agree that Grace was known very well by the Old Testament elect. I do think there was a progressive revelation of grace though as time has rolled on. There wasn't a single elect individual that died believing in salvation by works. What was progressive in my opinion was the revelation of Christ, who He is and what He has done and HOW He brings His sheep back into the fold.