New Policy By Secretary Of Navy Bans Christian Prayers On Ships Or Public Ceremonies

[ray kikkert]

On the cultural battlelines, all faith groups ought consider this. LCMS, OPC, ARP, PCA, URC, PEC and other Confessional Protestant Churchmen. There is a Jewish Rabbi behind these things at the Department of Defence, Captain Arni Resnikoff, CHC, USN (ret.). I know him. A bright fellow. He's Don Rumsfield's man. This will get more play on the Hill again. I won't be surprised if this results in hearings in the House Armed Services Committee (HR) and the Senate Armed Services Committee. Duncan Hunter, Chair for HASC is considering this am told. So is Congressman Jone, R-3rd Dist, NC. There are Senators and Congressmen pushing for this. It's far worse than mere public prayers. They've done all manner of censorship, not just of prayers but in many cases of sermons, Sunday School materials, and VBS programs. The Navy knows it also, but never a word. The PCA and OPC Chaplains are rather useless on the matter, esp that wonderful gentleman, Captain Stan Beach. A wonderful man
personally, but old and useless. A fine Chaplain too. PCA Churchmen, please forward to him. The LCMS has an excellent handbook that contradicts plainly and simply the new Sec Nav's directive. Shall be interesting to see if any LCMS reaction. One can't count on anything from the "besides-the-point" mainliners, or sideliners. For this scribe, the battle is on but not in the military issues any longer. Spent years with my friends helping them. For the military folks getting this, forward through your chain of command, fellow churchmen, and your pastors or priests. It is now a court-martial offense if one persists in praying in Jesus' name in any public venue. Disrespect. Disobeying lawful orders. The gentleman below, Gordon Klingenschmitt, Evangelical Episcopal Church, may well run the gauntlet. He's an Academy graduate (Air Force) and top drawer man. I remember one Chaplain I worked for. These things: Don't preach from Paul's Epistle to the Romans, never mention sola
scriptura, cease and desist from using Reformation sources for sermon preparation and study, preach only ethical maxims, there will be no "evangelical" Protestant Daily Vacation Bible school, and there was more. Plus, the nincompoop put it in writing. The base commander supported his Captain priest, Roman, and said anyone not obeying these rules are guilty of disobeying lawful orders. Guess who would not comply? (Others did. Cowards die many deaths before they die...valiant men die but once.) There's other stories out there. Five men, if not mistake, from under that same bigot are in the federal courts. Same and related issues. We have boxes of affidavits. This is why I can fight like a banshee when crossed. (One AMiA Churchman learned that this week who ego was not influenced by wisdom.) Fortunately, some Chaplains never come across these kind of bigots and they retain their generic, marshmellow qualities distinctive of American clergy. Am reminded of an internal memo by
an Assistant to the Chief of Chaplains, USN, in which he collected cases and stories about the Navy Chaplains. He said there was "systemic corruption". Other documents, hundreds of them, are in the hands of Ruthersford Institute and other attorneys. Back to theology for me. Our book on Apostolic Succession is shaping up fast. We'll be on the runway shortly, taxi-ing for takeoff. Teleconferening, radio, TV, and books shaping up. Time for Confessional Protestants to get into the public eye, not Roberston or this 37-Variety Heinz mix in my quarters, the Anglican world of Anglo-Romanizers, karoke-types, tongues-speaking Bishops who shake their hips to modern 7-11 music, and, in general, are not Confessionally consistent or even relevant, except to their own shrinking communities besotted by historic liberalism. That, God willing, is going to change. For other Confessional Churchmen, never say capitulation cannot happen on your home turf. We have the residuum of sin in our midst
(Rom.7.14-25). But more on that later.

Expect nothing from that gaggle at the NAE with the attenuated Gospel there.

At least the Memorial of Archbishop Thomas Cranmer, burned on Broad Street at Oxford on 21 March 1556, 450 years ago, continues to speak anew and afresh in our times. Currently, the fellow below has already been threatened now with charges from the Uniformed Military Code of Justice. Disrespect. Now it will be disobeying lawful orders. This was done last week in writing. Done by a low-level, one-star Admiral. The Norfolk Admiral got the dirty job. This one is coming down from the Chief of Naval Operations and the Chief of Chaplains. If Gordon goes to court martial, if they are brave enough, there will be a national reaction on radio, in the print media, TV and on the Hill. We'll be helping Gordon as we can. Also, the Admirals are saying, "Klingenschmitt is another Veitch." Guess what? Old Gordon gave me a ring one night. He made his contacts and now he's doing quite well, media-wise. This is why I look at Pompophilic Bishops, like REC Riches, sniff and laugh. Or ABP Rowan Williams or the apostate Frank Griswold, ECUSA. Christ is infinitely above us all. "The LORD is in His holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before Him." (Hab.2.20). Let the proud bend their knees. Let all of us kneel when we pray. We'll see how Klingenschmitt fares. But the big guys, including "that" JAG Admiral, Mike Lohr, if he still on deck, are into this up to their eyeballs. Don't blink Gordon. Hit em' hard, hit em' fast and hit em' often (ADM Bull Halsey, USN). Keep the lawyers close at hand. We are on standby to assist. Respectfully request all hands to forward to their military commanders.

Hello to my media friends. It's been a while. But you have Gordon's info below. Run the gauntlet Gordon. This is a test case. Let them court martial you. You'll be a hero. There'll be books, TV, radio and speaking engagements. I'll sit in the peanut gallery and watch how it all plays out. Sending to several thousand here.

Your fellow warrior,
Philip

The Rev. D. Philip Veitch
Former Navy Chaplain
Headmaster, Cambridge Classical Academy
Protestant Episcopal Church

Gordon James Klingenschmitt <chaplaingate@yahoo.com> wrote:
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 21:22:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Gordon James Klingenschmitt <chaplaingate@yahoo.com>
Subject: PRESS RELEASE: Secretary of Navy bans Christian prayers on ships
To: Gordon James Klingenschmitt <chaplaingate@yahoo.com>

THREE HOT PRESS RELEASES: 22 Mar 06

1) NEW POLICY BY SECRETARY OF NAVY BANS CHRISTIAN PRAYERS ON SHIPS OR PUBLIC CEREMONIES. Restrictive chaplain policy reverses 231 years of Naval history, weakens federal law, discourages not only prayers in Jesus name, but any Christian prayers based the Book of Common Prayer or the New Testament. Designed to excludes evangelical chaplains from participation in "the evening prayer" and empower commanders to censor and exclude chaplains based solely on prayer content.

Hot whistleblower complaint to Congress, and attached 4-page press release here (with link to actual SECNAV policy on last page):
http://www.persuade.tv/frenzy2/PR11SECNAV.pdf

Chief of Navy Chaplains responds:
http://persuade.tv/frenzy/NewNavyPrayerPolicy1.pdf


2) BRING YOUR TV CAMERAS: Whistleblower Navy Chaplain Gordon James Klingenschmitt plans to confront SECNAV in public speech to "War On Christians" political conference, 12:00 noon Monday 27 Mar 06 in Washington DC at Omni Shoreham Hotel. Several Senators and Congressmen to attend and speak as well. Details here:
http://persuade.tv/frenzy2/WACflyer.pdf


3) CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE (Alabama 10-Commandments Judge) WILL HOST LIVE TELEVISION PRESS CONFERENCE WITH CHAPLAIN KLINGENSCHMITT OUTSIDE THE WHITE HOUSE, 9am THURSDAY 30 MAR 06, to call for Presidential action.

Can you attend, or send camera/photographer to events 2 & 3 above?

Please read the press releases above, then call Chaplain Klingenschmitt for interview:
719-360-5132 cell. chaplaingate@yahoo.com Stay tuned at www.persuade.tv for daily updates...

God Bless,
GJK


........ you know, things in Canada are depressing what with the homosexual agenda being advocated ....et al. Our military is in such pathetic state it is no wonder they advertise "An army of one".

Now comes news from south of us that the Naval military wants to ban praying to Christ or in His Name on naval ships. This is pathetic. Are they doing everything in their power to destroy themselves?? If they shy away from and will not permit the Name of Christ to be called upon...whose name will they allow.... Allah? ...or Satan??

..... these profane babblers promoting this should be thrown overboard and fed to the sharks.

[Mickey]

There was a time when I was heavily involved with the chapels at my first two duty stations. I was asked to go to a ‘Singles Leadership Conference’ in Estes Park, CO; this trip was even paid in full by the Air Force There we learned the Purpose Driven principles long before Rick Warren published his books; we basically learned how to market individuals to get them into the chapel so we could take their money.

The Military Chaplaincy is secular to the core. On one occasion after I had made Staff Sergeant and graduating from Leadership School, I was asked to give the invocation. I agreed and was all prepared to preach a mini-sermon to hundreds of distinguished attendees and all of the brass on the Korean peninsula. A few weeks later, a couple of days before the ceremony, I was handed a piece of paper with my ‘prayer’ already prepared; all I was supposed to do was read it. Needless to say it didn’t have a hint of truth in it, nor did it even acknowledge God or any other ‘higher being’ for that matter. Then to close the ‘prayer’ I was to say, “In your name we pray amen.” Anyone with any sense would think to them self, “That was a prayer to a higher being? That sounded like a boast of the accomplishments of the graduates and the military as a whole, not a prayer, all we did that resembled a prayer was bow our heads.” It was the stupidest thing I had ever scene! I refused to give the invocation.

On another occasion when I was in Korea, the whole Logistics Group was assembled in the base theater for a Commanders Call. There we were briefed on suicide prevention and had to listen to a sharp rebuke from the commander for the behavior of the guys going off base and getting hammered at the clubs and then making a fool of themselves. One of the speakers from Mental Health spoke on the subject of ways to prevent suicide and my roommate, John (whom I‘d spent night after night trying to teach him the scriptures) had enough. As the Base Chaplin (Full Bird Colonel) praised the mental health section for their genius John stood up (in the presents of about a 1000 people) and raised his hand, the Chaplin saw him and pointed to him to let him speak. John said, “All of this talk about giving people a reason to live and never once did you mention Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ is the only one who gives hope and meaning to life.” There were a few sporadic amen’s during the silence. Then the Chaplin, without hesitation, looked out towards the rest of the crowd opened his arms and said, “And we at the chapel embrace people from all faiths.”

What people have to understand is that the chaplaincy is just another political institution. The men and women who are chaplains cannot make rank nor can they keep their job if they are biblical to any degree. There jobs and their life are held over their head if they do not comply with the order to be ‘tolerant.’ Of course some bases are worse than others as some of it slips through the cracks and chaplains speak out anyway. I know I have heard a few speak out very boldly despite the order not to.

For a few months I was a member of the praise band in the Protestant service while I was in Korea. During this time there came a situation where a Mormon chaplain was going to preach during our service; this outraged me so I protested all I could but to no avail. It turns out there is a rotation and the Mormon was placed on the rotation. I and a few others in the band decided we were going to walk out after we were done playing; we were the only ones to leave as no one else saw a problem with it.

I have many more stories and non of them positive. The Military Chaplaincy is full of hell and I advise anyone who knows anyone involved to flee from it.

[Whammer]

these profane babblers promoting this should be thrown overboard and fed to the sharks. (quote from Ray)

I agree with you brother, their day is coming as we all know. I am not surprised at all that this is happening in our country and yours......All who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution...another we all know. So it appears the burden spoken of in Luke 9:23-24 is going to get heavier here in our land.....let us not lose sight of these words also in the same cahpter of Luke.......57-62. I believe it is okay to ask God after the manner of our dear Lords prayer in the garden (Mark 14:32-36) and couple that with Heb. 12:1-5.
My prayer is that we will not grow weary, and that we will not lose sight of the importance of staying focused on the gospel.....otherwise we may end up fighting on the same team as "Dobson and co."......I would rather die than join his philosophical practices.......for the sake of the elect, I dont want to attempt to force the reprobate to "act like a sheep". The way of the cross is hard as I am discovering, but sweet

[Brandan Kraft]

Well I think it's all quite ridiculous. There is nothing in the world that can prevent a Christian from praying - absolutely absurd.

[ray kikkert]

There was a time when I was heavily involved with the chapels at my first two duty stations. I was asked to go to a ‘Singles Leadership Conference’ in Estes Park, CO; this trip was even paid in full by the Air Force There we learned the Purpose Driven principles long before Rick Warren published his books; we basically learned how to market individuals to get them into the chapel so we could take their money.

Purpose Driven Dung that revolves around the almighty dollar. Were there any others Mike that were convinced to reject this hypocrisy. Did any speak out against it??

The Military Chaplaincy is secular to the core. On one occasion after I had made Staff Sergeant and graduating from Leadership School, I was asked to give the invocation. I agreed and was all prepared to preach a mini-sermon to hundreds of distinguished attendees and all of the brass on the Korean peninsula. A few weeks later, a couple of days before the ceremony, I was handed a piece of paper with my ‘prayer’ already prepared; all I was supposed to do was read it. Needless to say it didn’t have a hint of truth in it, nor did it even acknowledge God or any other ‘higher being’ for that matter. Then to close the ‘prayer’ I was to say, “In your name we pray amen.” Anyone with any sense would think to them self, “That was a prayer to a higher being? That sounded like a boast of the accomplishments of the graduates and the military as a whole, not a prayer, all we did that resembled a prayer was bow our heads.” It was the stupidest thing I had ever scene! I refused to give the invocation.

Which makes me wonder just what the military's goal is. Is it the honest defense of it's countrymen...or the boast and pride of man and gaining material wealth. What makes us different from the Taliban then??

On another occasion when I was in Korea, the whole Logistics Group was assembled in the base theater for a Commanders Call. There we were briefed on suicide prevention and had to listen to a sharp rebuke from the commander for the behavior of the guys going off base and getting hammered at the clubs and then making a fool of themselves. One of the speakers from Mental Health spoke on the subject of ways to prevent suicide and my roommate, John (whom I‘d spent night after night trying to teach him the scriptures) had enough. As the Base Chaplin (Full Bird Colonel) praised the mental health section for their genius John stood up (in the presents of about a 1000 people) and raised his hand, the Chaplin saw him and pointed to him to let him speak. John said, “All of this talk about giving people a reason to live and never once did you mention Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ is the only one who gives hope and meaning to life.” There were a few sporadic amen’s during the silence. Then the Chaplin, without hesitation, looked out towards the rest of the crowd opened his arms and said, “And we at the chapel embrace people from all faiths.”

Yeah..... embrace people from all faiths and yet reject Christ nd in so doing ...holding the truth down in unrighteousness. It is altogether vanity and it seems that is what the military is geared towards....vanity, vexation, and a chasing after the wind.

What people have to understand is that the chaplaincy is just another political institution. The men and women who are chaplains cannot make rank nor can they keep their job if they are biblical to any degree. There jobs and their life are held over their head if they do not comply with the order to be ‘tolerant.’ Of course some bases are worse than others as some of it slips through the cracks and chaplains speak out anyway. I know I have heard a few speak out very boldly despite the order not to.

So what it comes down to is if one is subservient to Christ, than within his own country, serving for that country..one then must bear reproach for the sake of Christ, speak out, lose their status, job. It seems the military is no place for a servant of Christ and is not wanted here. I pray there are still some whio are not afraid to speak out and condemn this scoffing of Christ in the military.

For a few months I was a member of the praise band in the Protestant service while I was in Korea. During this time there came a situation where a Mormon chaplain was going to preach during our service; this outraged me so I protested all I could but to no avail. It turns out there is a rotation and the Mormon was placed on the rotation. I and a few others in the band decided we were going to walk out after we were done playing; we were the only ones to leave as no one else saw a problem with it.

So Donny Osmund was not a big influence on you...eh Mike... LOL I guess it was either leave from hearing this Mammon or sit and breakwind on demand.

I have many more stories and non of them positive. The Military Chaplaincy is full of hell and I advise anyone who knows anyone involved to flee from it.

It is sad that it has come to this.... is it really this bad that it is not worth trying to defend against it...or worse yet...not enough who will reject this new policy??

[ray kikkert]

these profane babblers promoting this should be thrown overboard and fed to the sharks. (quote from Ray)

I agree with you brother, their day is coming as we all know. I am not surprised at all that this is happening in our country and yours......All who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution...another we all know. So it appears the burden spoken of in Luke 9:23-24 is going to get heavier here in our land.....let us not lose sight of these words also in the same cahpter of Luke.......57-62. I believe it is okay to ask God after the manner of our dear Lords prayer in the garden (Mark 14:32-36) and couple that with Heb. 12:1-5.
My prayer is that we will not grow weary, and that we will not lose sight of the importance of staying focused on the gospel.....otherwise we may end up fighting on the same team as "Dobson and co."......I would rather die than join his philosophical practices.......for the sake of the elect, I dont want to attempt to force the reprobate to "act like a sheep". The way of the cross is hard as I am discovering, but sweet

You are right Whammer. I get upset when I see dung like this. I guess I just think of those who love Christ, who serve in the military, and then witness it's military command acting like a filthy mutt who can with the Name of Christ.... at best..... bare their teeth and expose a weak bladder.

It is no different up here in Canada.

[Mrs. Gill]

Ray, you mean to tell me that Canada HAS a military

[jmgipson]

You are right Whammer. I get upset when I see dung like this. I guess I just think of those who love Christ, who serve in the military, and then witness it's military command acting like a filthy mutt who can with the Name of Christ.... at best..... bare their teeth and expose a weak bladder.

It is no different up here in Canada.

Ray my friend, what do you expect. Some of the same brute beasts in the world also are in the military, churches, schools. What should we expect from those who are condemend. I fight anger each day as I watch the news and end up with His Word open to many verses that remind me that these days are evil. I especially hate it around here in the New England area where Rome runs it and the sodomites run Massachusetts. I look forward to the hope, the return of the King whom will cast out those where there will be nashing of teeth.

2 Tim 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers , having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Jude 4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 2:12-13
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

Jude 10
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

John

[jmgipson]

Ray, you mean to tell me that Canada HAS a military

Amen Mrs. Gill. She got ya Ray. HA HA HA

[ray kikkert]

Ray, you mean to tell me that Canada HAS a military

LOL, yeah..."an army of one". This bitter fellow recently fled and is now stationed up here.



What is really pathetic is that when troops were deployed to Afganistan the government at that time did not admit it to the public at first. Now that we have troops deployed here more heavily, the opposition parties want to discuss the relative merits of being here. So much for support of the troops.

[Whammer]

Well I think it's all quite ridiculous. There is nothing in the world that can prevent a Christian from praying - absolutely absurd.

So true, so true.....all the world of men and devils can do to us is kill our present tent, and what is that.....would it be so bad to be in the presence of our Lord.......for this chaplain to think we are being forced to stop worshipping shows that he does not understand the scriptures at all.

[Robert R. Higby]

Well, this is very interesting in the light of past history!

The first personal meeting of Winston Churchill and Franklin Roosevelt took place on a ship in the North Atlantic many months before the declaration of war against the Germans. The waters in the area were heavily infested with u-boats. The military soldiers on the ship had a 'worship service' as best they knew how one should be conducted--they sang all of their favorite hymns with a loudness such that the 'ocean breeze rang with God's glory'; they prayed for God's intervention as earnestly as any in history who were about to be destroyed by the enemies of God.

I do not believe in any union of church and state, but when mankind fails to acknowledge the sovereignty and authority of God we are in deep stupidity and destined for destruction!

[beloved57]

I was in military, went to fort momouth were the chaplins and chaplins assistants trained for the army chaplaincy, in my opinion totally apostate...prov 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked [is] an abomination to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright [is] his delight.

prov 21:27 The sacrifice of the wicked [is] abomination: how much more, [when] he bringeth it with a wicked mind?

[Mickey]

There was a Wiccan chaplain when I was in Korea.

[jmgipson]

So what else should we expect when the world looks at these so called leaders of christianity and thinks all of us as this:

Starbucks will be including Rick Warren quotes on some of their coffee cups. Rick Warren on a cup with this kind of mass exposure? What quote did Rick choose to give Starbucks?:

"You are not an accident. Your parents may not have planned you, but God did. He wanted you alive and created you for a purpose. Focusing on yourself will never reveal your real purpose. You were made by God and for God, and until you understand that, life will never make sense. Only in God do we discover our origin, our identity, our meaning, our purpose, our significance and our destiny." - The Rev. Rick Warren

Greed
Starbuck’s is not including this quote to turn people to Christ, or to show no partiality as to what kind of quotes they put on their cups. Instead, Rick Warren’s book is fast on the way to becoming the best selling book of all time (outside of the Bible). Did you get that? The Purpose Driven Life will soon be the most popular book ever written outside of the Bible! What company wouldn’t want to tap into that market niche? Who wouldn’t want to get a billion gazillion PDL readers thinking kindly of your company? So then, just one more company putting up their 'fish' symbol as a shrewd marketing technique. Does this not upset us anymore? Did not Jesus deal with these people in a fit of Godly rage?


John

[Robert R. Higby]

No doubt these things are symptomatic of our times, wherein Islam is praised, kissed, adored, and exalted by most politicians while genuine Christianity is debased. Just look at the different (opposite) reactions to cartoon comedy of the two!

All of the pseudo-Christian stuff is nonsense is well; maybe we ARE better off with only private prayer than with the ridiculous 'fatherhood of God, brotherhood of man' prayers by the average chaplain professing Christianity.

In one sense, the more corrupt mankind becomes outwardly, the more the grace and sovereignty of God is manifest outwardly! The contrast between God's true elect and the reprobates is becoming more obvious in the visible realm with every passing decade.