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Thread: Canon and History

  1. #1
    MCoving is a jewel in the rough MCoving is a jewel in the rough MCoving is a jewel in the rough MCoving is a jewel in the rough MCoving is a jewel in the rough MCoving is a jewel in the rough MCoving's Avatar
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    Canon and History

    Okay this probably was talked about before but I have questions on it. How does one know what is inspired of God and what is not? What is the Bible and what is not? I mean God is sovereign and in control so everything that people went through in history.. and now the Bible we have today is that Gods inspired Word?
    Here's a link I was reading over.. http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ45.HTM and all the history of what was inspired/accepted as Gods Word and what was not.. then things changed and now we have the Bible we do today.

    Yet theres a verse that says: 2 Timothy 3:16
    All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

    So the Scripture we have today is inspired by God then? The historical arguments over what is canonical or not was directed by God and when came of that the Bible we have today is inspired of God?

    I do not mean to open up a can of worms here.. or have people arguing and disagreeing. I just want to know peoples opinions.. I'm sure they will be different, but I am interested in studying these things, in time. I remember even being at California Baptist University and my NT class teacher talking about John being questionable.. that scholars were questioning its canonicity. People have been doing it since the begining so its nothing new.. and honestly dont see why its wrong to question or understand such things. Though some people say that it is wrong to even question if the Bible we have today is inspired of God. But I just kinda am interested in church history too.

    Again.. please no arguing so much here.. keep that in the dead faith thread I just am curious about the canon and the history.. if anyone has any more links?

    If this is wrong to post here and want me to post it in the dead faith thread I can. thanks for understanding!

    Mary

    ps: another interesting link http://freethought.mbdojo.com/canon.html
    Last edited by MCoving; 04-15-2006 at 05:33 PM.
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    wildboar has a spectacular aura about wildboar has a spectacular aura about wildboar has a spectacular aura about wildboar's Avatar
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    Re: Canon and History

    As the Belgic Confession says:

    We receive all these books, and these only, as holy and canonical, for the regulation, foundation, and confirmation of our faith; believing without any doubt, all things contained in them, not so much because the Church receives and approves them as such, but more especially because the Holy Ghost witnesseth in our hearts, that they are from God, whereof they carry the evidence in themselves. For the very blind are able to perceive that the things foretold in them are fulfilling.
    or as the Westminster standards say:


    WCF 1:4-5
    WCF 1.4 The authority of the Holy Scripture, for which it ought to be believed, and obeyed, dependeth not upon the testimony of any man, or Church; but wholly upon God (who is truth itself) the author thereof: and therefore it is to be received, because it as the Word of God.(1)

    (1)2 Pet. 1:19,21; 2 Tim. 3:16; 1 John 5:9; 1 Thess. 2:13. WCF 1.5 We may be moved and induced by the testimony of the Church to an high and reverent esteem of the Holy Scripture,(1) and the heavenliness of the matter, the efficacy of the doctrine, the majesty of the style, the consent of all the parts, the scope of the whole, (which is to give all glory to God), the full discovery it makes of the only way of man's salvation, the many other incomparable excellencies, and the entire perfection thereof, are arguments whereby it doth abundantly evidence itself to be the Word of God; yet, notwithstanding, our full persuasion and assurance of the infallible truth, and divine authority thereof, is from the inward work of the Holy Spirit, bearing witness by and with the word in our hearts.(2)

    (1)1 Tim. 3:15
    (2)1 John 2:20,27; John 16:13,14; 1 Cor. 2:10,11,12; Isa. 59:21.
    Hodge comments on this passage by saying:

    This section teaches the following propositions: --
    1. That the authority of the inspired Scriptures does not rest upon the testimony of the Church, but directly upon God.
    This proposition is designed to deny the Romish heresy that the inspired Church is the ultimate source of all divine know ledge, and that the written Scripture and ecclesiastical tradition alike depend upon the authoritative seal of the Church for their credibility. They thus make the Scriptures a product of the Spirit through the Church; while, in fact, the Church is a product of the Spirit through the instrumentality of the Word. It is true that the testimony of the early Church to the apostolic authorship of the several books is of fundamental importance, just as a subject may bear witness to the identity of an heir to the crown; but the authority of the Scriptures is no more derived from the Church than that of the king from the subject who proves the fact that he is the legal heir.
    2. That the internal evidences of a divine origin contained in and inseparable from the Scriptures themselves are conclusive.
    This is a part of the evidences of Christianity considered under sect. i. The internal marks of a divine origin in the Bible are such as -- (1.) The phenomena it presents of a supernatural intelligence: in unity of design developed through its entire structure, although it is composed of sixty-six separate books, by forty different authors, writing at intervals through sixteen centuries; in its perfect freedom from all the errors incident to the ages of its production, with regard to facts or opinions of whatever kind; in. the marvellous knowledge it exhibits of human nature under all possible relations and conditions; in the original and luminous solution it affords of many of the darkest problems of human history and destiny. (2.) The unparalleled perfection of its moral system: in the exalted view it gives of God, his law, and moral government; in its exalted yet practical and beneficent system of morality, set forth and effectively enforced; in its wondrous power over the human conscience; and in the unrivalled extent and persistence of its influence over communities of men.
    3. Yet that the highest and most influential faith in the truth and authority of the Scriptures is the direct work of the Holy Spirit on our hearts.
    The Scriptures to the unregenerate man are like light to the blind. They may be felt as the rays of the sun are felt by the blind, but they cannot be fully seen. The Holy Spirit opens the blinded eyes and gives due sensibility to the diseased heart; and thus assurance comes with the evidence of spiritual experience. When first regenerated, he begins to set the Scriptures to the test of experience; and the more he advances, the more he proves them true, and the more he discovers of their limitless breadth and fulness, and their evidently designed adaptation to all human wants under all possible conditions.
    That does not mean we are at liberty to reject certain books and accept ones which others do not accept. The Holy Spirit is not divided against Himself. God entrusted His Word to the Jews under the old dispensation and so they have preserved the Old Testament and God has entrusted His Word to the church of the new dispensation and they have preserved the New Testament. There are not only canonical books but also a canonical text. We do not need modern secular textual criticism to give us a better Bible.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

  3. #3
    High Grace Nonconformist Facilitator Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby is just really nice Robert R. Higby's Avatar
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    Re: Canon and History

    Mary: I remember even being at California Baptist University and my NT class teacher talking about John being questionable.. that scholars were questioning its canonicity.

    John is the first book that most skeptics love to question and throw out--for many reasons that we could talk about. None of the controversies on this forum, however, have anything to do with questioning the Johannine writings. Such a posture is a threat to the doctrine of inspiration--one which we reject entirely!

    There was a settled NT canon accepted by believers in the early centuries of Christianity. It did not include James, 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, and Jude without major disputes. But all of the other books were accepted by the majority of NT believers from the beginning. The facts on these issues have been documented in our canon thread. Some of the 5 disputed books have early attestation also. But the early expositors had no problem with the notion of a greater and lesser canon; today's dogmaticians are a different story!
    Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?

    --Martin Luther

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    Suspended / Banned katoikei is an unknown quantity at this point
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    Re: Canon and History

    Yeah, I am personally most happy with the first chapter of the Westminster Confession (There are twenty four references from the Scriptures to enjoy.)

    Enjoy!
    Last edited by katoikei; 04-22-2006 at 07:50 PM.

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