Spurgeon vs. Hyper-Calvinism

[Kentucky Kid]

I've read a book entitled: "Spurgeon vs. Hyper-Calvinism- The Battle for Gospel Preaching" by Iain H. Murray, published by the Banner of Truth Trust, PO Box 621, Carlise, Pennsylvania 17013, USA. The book is a history over the battle Spurgeon had with Hyper-Calvinism in England in the 1800's. The publisher publishes or used to publish a magazine "The Banner of Truth". We who are HC's would see them as "Hypo-Calvinists" (below Calvinism). They are the publishers who re-published A. W. Pink's THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD ( Abridged edition). It was "abridged" in that they totally took out the chapter on "The sovereignty of God in reprobation"; they also decided to "abridge" any statements they didn't like by Pink because they are Hypos whereas Pink was a Hyper. The book is pro Spurgeon and anti-Hyper. Spurgeon, even in some "sovereign grace camps", is known as the "prince of preachers". Many of his quotes are in magazines and bulletins. But to some of us, like myself, just by reading his own words he reveals himself as even below a Hypo in my opinion: " out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh" ( Matt 12:34 ). I'm not attacking a dead man's character, I'm attacking his doctrines he promoted while he was alive. He attacked Hyper-Calvinism.......I fight for HC (Prov 23:23). Mr. Spurgeon was a "Marrowman", a "common gracer", and a "mixer" ( Arminians or Calvinists were equally his brother ). Marrowmen believe God , when the so called "free offer" ( offer salvation to all ) is proclaimed, that God wants all to be saved ( elect and reprobate ), even though God knows it won't happen! Common grace is basically that God loves everyone, and that they can do good works without being regenerated. And a mixer- well the greatest blasphemer I've read in my life ( at least during his life we know of ) was John Wesley. Search him out and see what he thought of sovereign predestination. Yet, Spurgeon called him a brother and said he was one of the most Godly men to walk the earth! This is not heresay, these statements are in print for all who wish to read! Just from the reading of this book, I know I wouldn't even CONSIDER attending Mr. Spurgeon's congregation was I living at that time in London. In spite of this, I heartily recommend the book for the history is very interesting. Maybe some of you online computer "handyman/woman" could find out where the book is available on the internet. It is a great read!.......KK

[katoikei]

GREAT post! I have one question.....has anyone tracked down an online source yet ?

[Highlyfavored]

Hey Guys
I've researched this a little and don't think we'll find an online copy beings the book was written in 1995 and I don't think they're done sucking the pofits out of it yet.

As an aside have you guys noticed most hypers don't charge $$$ for their materials?

[Robert R. Higby]

The book may be purchased from Banner of Truth (banneroftruth.org) for 6.95.

I dropped Banner of Truth magazine in 1998 because of their increasing anti-supralapsarian fanaticism (that is an under-statement) and witchhunt.

We have an old thread on this subject somewhere in the archives; we basically concluded mostly along the lines of what KK has said (regarding Spurgeon's theology).

[wildboar]

As an aside have you guys noticed most hypers don't charge $$$ for their materials?

That's because nobody would buy them Seriously though, what hyper-calvinist do you know of that has written a book, I mean an actual book, lately that has published it and not charged anyone to purchase it?

[EnglishRose]

Thank you for your message, kentucky Kid, and I would endorse all you have said. We were shocked when we first discovered The Banner of Truth had truncated Pink's masterpiece of "The Sovereignty of God." and I managed to get a voice recording of Pink's full book on the computer, a blessing indeed.
We also agree that Spurgeon, although a great preacher, sounds almost Arminian at times, so seemed pleasing to all men. Have not read the book you mentioned, but have seen quotes from it in recent magazines. My husband says we have gone through many errors in the past, in our spiritual walk, that now we have seen the glories of Sovereign grace and the 5 points of Calvinism, and we are considered "hyper",we are somewhat reluctant to feed our minds on anything but the Truth, but not neglecting to be aware of these things.
Thank you for your precious contribution.
English Rose

I've read a book entitled: "Spurgeon vs. Hyper-Calvinism- The Battle for Gospel Preaching" by Iain H. Murray, published by the Banner of Truth Trust, PO Box 621, Carlise, Pennsylvania 17013, USA. The book is a history over the battle Spurgeon had with Hyper-Calvinism in England in the 1800's. The publisher publishes or used to publish a magazine "The Banner of Truth". We who are HC's would see them as "Hypo-Calvinists" (below Calvinism). They are the publishers who re-published A. W. Pink's THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD ( Abridged edition). It was "abridged" in that they totally took out the chapter on "The sovereignty of God in reprobation"; they also decided to "abridge" any statements they didn't like by Pink because they are Hypos whereas Pink was a Hyper. The book is pro Spurgeon and anti-Hyper. Spurgeon, even in some "sovereign grace camps", is known as the "prince of preachers". Many of his quotes are in magazines and bulletins. But to some of us, like myself, just by reading his own words he reveals himself as even below a Hypo in my opinion: " out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh" ( Matt 12:34 ). I'm not attacking a dead man's character, I'm attacking his doctrines he promoted while he was alive. He attacked Hyper-Calvinism.......I fight for HC (Prov 23:23). Mr. Spurgeon was a "Marrowman", a "common gracer", and a "mixer" ( Arminians or Calvinists were equally his brother ). Marrowmen believe God , when the so called "free offer" ( offer salvation to all ) is proclaimed, that God wants all to be saved ( elect and reprobate ), even though God knows it won't happen! Common grace is basically that God loves everyone, and that they can do good works without being regenerated. And a mixer- well the greatest blasphemer I've read in my life ( at least during his life we know of ) was John Wesley. Search him out and see what he thought of sovereign predestination. Yet, Spurgeon called him a brother and said he was one of the most Godly men to walk the earth! This is not heresay, these statements are in print for all who wish to read! Just from the reading of this book, I know I wouldn't even CONSIDER attending Mr. Spurgeon's congregation was I living at that time in London. In spite of this, I heartily recommend the book for the history is very interesting. Maybe some of you online computer "handyman/woman" could find out where the book is available on the internet. It is a great read!.......KK

[katoikei]

How dumb of me Highlyflavoured....[one]....I have heard the title 'Spurgeon vs. The Hyper-Calvinists' so many times that I did not even notice that it was a book about that topic....???

I read this sermon by Charles Haddon Spurgeon....Free Will A Slave, based on John 5:40 and in particular a comment that got me wondering about old Charles, he was definitely weighing these issues.

1.

This is one of the great guns of the Arminians, mounted upon the top of their walls, and often discharged with terrible noise against the poor Christians called Calvinists.

2.

Philosophy and religion both discard at once the very thought of free-will; and I will go as far as Martin Luther, in that strong assertion of his, where he says, "If any man doth ascribe aught of salvation, even the very least, to the free-will of man, he knoweth nothing of grace, and he hath not learnt Jesus Christ aright." It may seem a harsh sentiment; but he who in his soul believes that man does of his own free-will turn to God, cannot have been taught of God, for that is one of the first principles taught us when God begins with us, that we have neither will nor power, but that he gives both; that he is "Alpha and Omega" in the salvation of men.

3.

If a man is not chosen he will never come. When he does come it is a sure proof that he was chosen. Says one, "Suppose any one should go to Christ who had not been called of the Spirit." Stop, my brother, that is a supposition thou hast no right to make, for such a thing cannot happen; you only say it to entangle me, and you will not do that just yet. I say every man who comes to Christ shall be saved. I can say that as a Calvinist, or as a hyper-Calvinist, as plainly as you can say it. I have no narrower gospel than you have; only my gospel is on a solid foundation, whereas yours is built upon nothing but sand and rottenness. "Every man that cometh shall be saved, for no man cometh to me except the Father draw him." "But," says one, "suppose all the world should come, would Christ receive them?" Certainly, if all came; but then they won't come. I tell you all that come—aye, if they were as bad as devils, Christ would receive them; if they had all sin and filthiness running into their hearts as into a common sewer for the whole world, Christ would receive them. Another says, "I want to know about the rest of the people. May I go out and tell them—Jesus Christ died for every one of you? May I say—there is righteousness for everyone of you, there is life for every one of you?" No; you may not. You may say—there is life for every man that comes. But if you say there is life for one of those that do not believe, you utter a dangerous lie. If you tell them Jesus Christ was punished for their sins, and yet they will be lost, you tell a wilful falsehood. To think that God could punish Christ and then punish them—I wonder at your daring to have the impudence to say so!

Ummm curious ?

[Ekere]

How pitiful it is when the family of God resorts to the sharp barbs of antagonism when speaking of fellow believers. While I am all for confronting error it truly is amazing the lack of respect in which it is done to men whether alive or dead. It in noway imaginable can please the Lord how often men of faith bash each other in the attempt to eithrer further their doctrine or themselves. All in my humble opinion.


Ekere

[Kentucky Kid]

To Gordon or "EKERE": welcome to the Predestinarian Network. Concerning your above post, I wanted to make a few comments. I read your public profile, and I trust we believe pretty much the same. I now wanted to share a few of your beliefs ( which you made public in your public profile ) in comparison of Mr. Spurgeon's beliefs out of his own mouth. POINT #1- You stated you are a supralapsarian and that God has elected many to damnation. Mr. Spurgeon calls this belief Satanic: In the book mentioned on this thread, Mr. Spurgeon in the chapter "Injury Done by Hyper-Calvinsts": QUOTE: "The true minister of Christ feels impelled to preach the whole truth, because it and it alone can meet the wants of man. What evils has this world seen through a distorted, mangled, man-moulded gospel. What mischiefs have been done to the souls of men by men who have preached only one part and not all the cousel of God!" "I have known convictions stifled by the SOUL-DESTROYING system which takes manhood from man and makes him no more responsible than an ox. I cannot imagine a more ready instrument IN THE HANDS OF SATAN for the ruin of souls than a minister who tells sinners that it is not their duty to repent of their sin or to believe in Christ, and who has the arrogance to call himself a gospel minister, while he teaches that God hates some men infinitely and unchageably for no reason whatever but simply because he chooses to do so. O my brethren! May the Lord save you from the voice of the charmer, and keep you ever deaf to the voice of error". POINT #2- I believe you said in your profile that God does not want all men to be saved. From the book ( commenting on I Tim 2:3,4) from Mr. Spurgeon: QUOTE: "Does not the text mean that it is the wish of God that men should be saved? The word 'wish' gives as much force to the original as it really requires, and the passage should run thus- 'whose wish it is that all men should be saved and come to a knowlege of the truth'. As it is my wish that it should be so, as it is your wish that it might be so, so it is God's wish that all men should be saved; for, assuredly, he is not less benevolent than we are." POINT #3- Your profile said God does not love everybody. In the book from Mr. Spurgeon: QUOTE: "Beloved, the benevolent love of Jesus is more extended than the lines of his electing love...That ( i.e. love revealed in Matthew 23:37) is not the love which beams resplendently upon his chosen, but it is true love for all that". POINT#4 Concerning the free offer mentioned on this thread ( offering salvation to the elect and reprobate ): In the book the author states: QUOTE: "he had no hesitation in concluding sermons with such words as": ( Mr. Spurgeon to all who are in the audience- elect or reprobate )- QUOTE: " With hands loaded with love he stands outside the door of your heart. Is this not this good reason for opening the door and letting the heavenly stranger in, when he can bless you with such a vast extent of benediction?". Gordon, I could go on and on. I could go up to my attic and quote him denying what I believe is error and Satanic. As Robert said, the forum has archives on this subject. I mainly posted the thread concerning the book and not an attack on Mr. Spurgeon, although it is a historical fact that he attacked what you stated in your public profile as what you believe as error his whole career...........KK

[wildboar]

There is inevitably a problem with the whole notion of taking Spurgeon as the standard of Calvinism to begin with. He just simply isn't the standard. No reformed or Presbyterian elder promises to uphold the teachings of Spurgeon. Calvinism as a system is defined by the Reformed and Presbyterian Confessions. A better book would have been the Reformed and Presbyterian Confessions versus Hyper-Calvinism. These were consensus documents written by people who differed on numerous things but who agreed on the things contained within these documents. The problem with taking an individual is that an individual is bound to hold to certain beliefs which historically are not in line with Calvinism even though they may fit within the pail of the Reformed Confessions in general. I enjoy reading Spurgeon. The church-world would be much better off if more people were reading Spurgeon. But he is simply not the benchmark and I don't believe he considered himself to be. Spurgeon praised many of the works of John Gill. I probably stand somewhere in between the two in certain areas of theology and of course on the baptism issue disagree with both of them.

[katoikei]

While I am all for confronting error it truly is amazing the lack of respect in which it is done to men whether alive or dead.

~Ekere

Ekere:

Firstly, let me wish you a warm Christian welcome to Predestinarian, I see from your six posts you are getting your feet wet. Good. We should all make 2 Timothy 2:24,25 a standard when it comes to discussions, for we need to make plenty of space for prayer in the Holy Spirit for one another on matters of faith and theology. A softness in Christ comes when we realize that the Scripture is and always will be the ONLY source of TRUTH.

Wildboar:

I probably stand somewhere in between the two in certain areas of theology and of course on the baptism issue disagree with both of them.

~ Wildboar

To stand somewhere between the two is to stand in the land of men, return to the Scriptures, the only source of light and truth. Peace, my friend. Peace in Christ alone.

Well, now see how I got my peace boots wet to Ekere, it is not to hard to offend people when you stand for the Truth of the Scriptures, as oppossed to the fickle truths of men.

[lionovjudah]

~ Wildboar

To stand somewhere between the two is to stand in the land of men, return to the Scriptures, the only source of light and truth. Peace, my friend. Peace in Christ alone.

I do not believe Charles(Wildboar) was remotely implying the above as a sign he is not in Christ. THe thread is about Spurgeon. And it is fair for him to state he is between Gill and Spurgeon in areas of theology.

JPK

[Brandan Kraft]

I do not believe Charles(Wildboar) was remotely implying the above as a sign he is not in Christ. THe thread is about Spurgeon. And it is fair for him to state he is between Gill and Spurgeon in areas of theology.

JPK

I'd like to know what it means to be "between" Gill and Spurgeon. The two are worlds apart.

[Prakk]

"...a mixer- well the greatest blasphemer I've read in my life ( at least during his life we know of ) was John Wesley. Search him out and see what he thought of sovereign predestination."

Odd that I just met a Methodist Minister who is as Hyper a Calvinist as you would want to find.

Hugh McBryde

[Kentucky Kid]

Hi Hugh ( Prakk )- KK here. How odd for me also, that I've carried mail for around 30 years and the first hyper- Calvinist mailman I've ever met I just met here in the West Virginia PO- he attends a Methodist church! He teaches Sunday school. He tells me no one in his congregation teaches any Calvinism but him.....he feels compelled to stay there to teach the Methodists! "Methodist" or not- I look for him everyday at work for fellowship. But not all mailman are hypers, just as not all Methodist ministers are hypers- yeah?. Quoting Mr. Wesley from his WORKS- Quote: "Baptism: is the washing away the guilt of original sin. We who were children of wrath are made the children of God. We are rengerated or born again." ( 10:192 ). INEFFICACIOUS ATONEMENT- QUOTE: "What! Can the blood of Christ burn in hell? For he that was sanctified by the blood of Christ was purchased by the blood of Christ. But one who was sactified by the blood of Christ may nevertheless go to hell; may fall under that fiery indignation which shall for ever devour the adversaries" ( 10:297 ). FINAL GLORY CONDITIONED ON GOD AND THE SINNER- QUOTE: "The righteousness of Christ is doubtless neccessary for any soul that enters glory: But so is personal holiness too, for every child of man. The former is necessary to entitle us to heaven; the latter to qualify us for it." ( 7: between 312 and 317 ). DENIAL OF UNCONDITIONAL DOUBLE PREDESTINATION- QUOTE: "But if this be so, then is all preaching vain. It is needless to them that are elected; for they, wether with preaching or without, will infallibly be saved. This, then, is a plain proof that the doctrine of predestination is not of God, because it makes void the ordinance of God, and God is not divided against himself. How uncomfortable a thought is this, that thousands and millions of men, without any preceding offence or fault of theirs, where unchangeably doomed to everlasting burnings! This is the blasphemy clearly contained in the horrible decree of predestination!" ( 7: betweeen 376-384 ). CALVINSIM- QUOTE: "All the devices of Satan, for these fifty years, have done far less toward stopping this work of God, than that single doctrine. Be diligent to prevent them, and to guard these tender minds against the predestinarian poison". ( 8:336 ). Hugh, I quoted Mr. Wesley because at the top of your post it read "Blashphemer?". I wasn't sure what you meant, that I might of been wrong about Mr. Wesley. You may judge for yourself. I do, however, praise God for my " Hyper- Calvinist Methodist Mailman Brother!"......KK

[Prakk]

"Hugh, I quoted Mr. Wesley because at the top of your post it read 'Blashphemer?'. I wasn't sure what you meant, that I might of been wrong about Mr. Wesley. You may judge for yourself. I do, however, praise God for my 'Hyper- Calvinist Methodist Mailman Brother!'......KK

You seemed to imply that Wesley and Spurgeon were blasphemers because they were not Calvinistic in outlook. Stunted, perhaps, wrong, certainly if that was their orientation, blasphemers? That's a bit strong. I myself am a double doggone predestinationist who thinks that God directs the motion of every atom conciously.

Hugh

[Kentucky Kid]

Thanks Hugh for your response! As for these men- concerning Mr. Spurgeon- I mainly mentioned him because I really have enjoyed reading the book! I didn't call him a blasphemer. I did call Mr. Wesley a blasphemer and the elect judge everything ( I Cor 2:15 ); so you and I disagree on the statement I made which is fine. I can agree with you when you said: " God directs the motion of every atom conciously"......amen bro...

[wildboar]

I'd like to know what it means to be "between" Gill and Spurgeon. The two are worlds apart.

If that were true then there would be plenty of room to be between them wouldn't there?

But I really don't believe they were worlds apart. Spurgeon was a great preacher and Gill for the most part was a great theologian. The world needs both. I disagree with Gill's statements opposing duty faith and duty repentance. I'm not going to damn Spurgeon because he enjoyed Wesley or whoever. I'm not going to go down the whole stupid, unbiblical road of person a is unregenerate because they believe that person b is regenerate and person b does not believe in a limited atonement. There is no Scriptural support for that nonsense. As for Wesley, there are a whole heaping stack of books I would like to read before I start reading Wesley. My life is too short to make it to Wesley. I have no desire to immitate or emulate Wesley and recognize the false doctrines which he taught and those false doctrines should be recognized as such. But I'm not going to create some hall of shame to list those people who made it onto my unregenerate naughty list based upon some idiotic unbiblical criteria. Shakespeare would say to such people, "Thou droning doghearted codpiece!", Charlie Brown would say "UGGGGGH!", and I would just turn my computer off and chant some psalms with my son.

[katoikei]

"UGGGGH!"

[tartanarmy]

I do love reading Wildboar. He seems, well, balanced.
Mark