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Thread: Romans 3:23-24

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    Jack Daw is on a distinguished road Jack Daw's Avatar
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    Romans 3:23-24

    for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

    All, that is, all mankind, have sinned, and have thus fallen short of God's glory. These, all mankind, are freely justified by God's grace through Jesus' work on the cross.
    Surely this is what the verses are saying? How does that pertain to limited atonement? The only explanation I can think of is that this verse is only directed to the elect ("all"), meaning that though verse 23 in particular is the classic proof of all mankind's sinfulness, it actually only testifies of the sinfulness of the elect. (Thus this verse cannot be used to state the condemnation of the world when preaching to the unregenerate, since this verse does not consider them, but those effectively drawn so far.) If that explanation is wrong though I'd like to hear what everyone else has to say.
    For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me. (Ps. 40:12)

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    Re: Romans 3:23-24

    The problem of course for the way an Arminian would like to read it is that it proves to much for him. He would really have to become a universalist. This obviously cannot be because of what is said elsewhere in the same passage. Your solution provides some sort of answer but I think it better to take part of it as parenthetical:

    Romans 3:21-26 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe, (For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God) 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
    For whatever strength of arm he may have who swims in the open sea, yet in time he is carried away and sunk, mastered by the greatness of its waves. Need then there is that we be in the ship, that is, that we be carried in the wood, that we may be able to cross this sea. Now this Wood in which our weakness is carried is the Cross of the Lord, by which we are signed, and delivered from the dangerous tempests of this world.--St. Augustine

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    Re: Romans 3:23-24

    In my king james bible, I have a semicolon in between verse 23 and 24, so I don't think they go together in the way some might. I think 23 really means ALL are sinners, and 24 is just saying that because all are sinners, justification is, has to be, by grace, but is not really meant to be taken with the "all" in 23 as though it were to mean everyone on planet earth is justified. (it seems to be just a general statement). But yes, if 24 is indeed directed toward someone specific, it would have to be the elect because only the elect are justified. Seems like this section is trying to get us to understand mostly that there is no justification by the deeds of the law, therefore Jews and Gentiles are no different, they are "all", both Jew and Gentile, sinners without distinction, and therefore, "all" (both Jew and Gentile) would need to be justified by the grace of God. So I suppose by "all" it could also mean "both Jew and Gentile".

    28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

    Well, hope I did not just confuse ya more.
    But I'm sure everyone will let me know if I am wrong.

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    comitatus1 has a little shameless behaviour in the past
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    Re: Romans 3:23-24

    The simplest solution to your problem is found in verse 25, in which Paul clarifies that it is by faith that God's grace is received. Thus, although all fall short of the glory of God, only those who have faith will be justified. Of course, this does not really settle the Calvinist vs Arminian debate. You have to follow Paul's argument to Chapter 8 for that.

    Christopher

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    Jack Daw is on a distinguished road Jack Daw's Avatar
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    Re: Romans 3:23-24

    I think the explanation provided by "Merry & Joyful" sounds best. While the parentheses simplify the text in a somewhat revealing manner, so to speak, it still doesn't explain the "all". Indeed, considering that the church in Rome was comprised of gentiles and Jews in conflict with each other, the relevant audience here is thus "all in the congregation". I disagree that verse 25 resolves the issue. While it does say that justification is by faith only, and we know faith is impossible for the reprobate (see my signature for example), it still doesn't explain why it says all have sinned and that they are freely justified by God's grace.
    It seems however that the audience is indeed the elect after all, so the question remains then whether it can be used to address the sinfulness of unregenerate masses.
    For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me. (Ps. 40:12)

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