Study in Romans

[Jack Daw]

I thought I'd study Romans. I'll be posting questions here... First,

1:17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Henry references this to Acts 3:26, "For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways." (NASB)

Question then, is why did God turn to the Jews first?
Also, since salvation was always through Christ, doesn't that imply that the Gospel, although unknown to the Gentiles at that time, still was in effect for them? To me it seems more like 1:17 refers to the fact that the Jews were given knowledge of the Gospel first (in the OT), and then the Greeks (in the NT).

[Dans la Musique]

I thought I'd study Romans. I'll be posting questions here... First,

1:17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Henry references this to Acts 3:26, "For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways." (NASB)

Question then, is why did God turn to the Jews first?
Also, since salvation was always through Christ, doesn't that imply that the Gospel, although unknown to the Gentiles at that time, still was in effect for them? To me it seems more like 1:17 refers to the fact that the Jews were given knowledge of the Gospel first (in the OT), and then the Greeks (in the NT).

Jack,
I think it is important to use the word covenant in place of testament when looking at this issue.
God chose Israel as His nation during the old covenant, it is obvious that they were much like the church that we have today... A few of Israels people were elect, and the nation as a whole went through ups and downs based on their breaking of the covenant... I believe I am on the right track here but someone with a little better understanding could present this better. As for the Gentiles during the old covenant, maybe some were elect and used for Gods purposes in such a way, but the focus of Gods covenant was with Israel. The old covenant is fulfilled with Christ's coming. The old covenant was always leading up to Christ. Now that Christ has fulfilled the old covenant, we have a new covenant. God's plan has been fully revealed. Now with the New covenant, We realize more now that we are chosen by grace, and we recognize our savior and await His return. Not that the old covenant elect werent chosen by Grace, they were too, but we have more knowledge today because God's plan for redemption is finished.
I think it is important to remember that the old covenant was always pointing to Christ, now the new covenent points to the Christ who fulfilled the old covenant.

[Robert R. Higby]

To me it seems more like 1:17 refers to the fact that the Jews were given knowledge of the Gospel first (in the OT), and then the Greeks (in the NT).

It is also true that the Jews were the first to be given knowledge of the Gospel in the NT for a very short time. As Christ stated (Acts 1:8): first Jerusalem, second Judea and Samaria, third the ends of the earth.

[Jack Daw]

Dan,

Isn't the OC and NC the same thing, namely that God would save his people through Christ's work? Surely you would agree that the OT saints and the NT saints were saved by Christ's work? That God didn't grant them salvation for different reasons? (dispensationalism)

Bob,

What about Ruth? She was a Gentile yet she was saved. Surely the Gospel of God's salvation of all men (Jew and Gentile) was in effect already back then?

[Dans la Musique]

I agree, it the same thing, the difference is the amount of knowledge known of God's plan. His plan unfolded in time, like I said, all Gods elect are saved by Grace through faith from Christ, but to our little minds we just watch God working.

[Jack Daw]

Here's another question:

1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves.

What does this mean? What I'm asking is, in what sense did God give them up? Like, what is it referring to.

[Jack Daw]

Dan,

Indeed; God's plan of salvation was only known to the Jews in OT times because it had been revealed to them. What I'm getting at is that 1:17 isn't referring to Acts 3:26 as Henry says, but simply to what I just wrote; the gospel was revealed to the Jews in OT times, and then to the Gentiles through Paul in NT times.

[CarolK]

This is what Robert Haldane's Commentary on Romans says:

To the Jew first. — From the days of Abraham, their great progenitor, the Jews had been highly distinguished from all the rest of the world by their many and great privileges. It was their high distinction that of them Christ came, ‘who is over all, God blessed for ever.’ They were thus, as His kinsmen, the royal family of the human race, in this respect higher than all others, and they inherited Emmanuel’s land. While, therefore, the evangelical covenant, and consequently justification and salvation, equally regarded all believers, the Jews held the first rank, as the ancient people of God, while the other nations were strangers from the covenants of promise. The preaching of the Gospel was to be addressed to them first, and, at the beginning, to them alone,( Matthew 10:6); for, during the abode of Jesus Christ upon earth, He was the minister only of the circumcision, (Romans 15:8). ‘I am not sent,’ He says, ‘but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel;’ and He commanded that repentance and remission of Sins should be preached in His name among all nations, ‘beginning at Jerusalem,’ (Acts 3:26, 14:26). Thus, while Jews and Gentiles were united in the participation of the Gospel, the Jews were not deprived of their rank, since they were the first called.

The preaching of the Gospel to the Jews first, served various important ends. It fulfilled Old Testament prophecies, as Isaiah 2:3. It manifested the compassion of the Lord Jesus for those who shed His blood, to whom, after His resurrection, He commanded His Gospel to be first proclaimed.

It showed that it was to be preached to the chief of sinners, and proved the sovereign efficacy of His atonement in expatiating the guilt even of His murderers. It was fit, too, that the Gospel should be begun to be preached where the great transactions took place on which it was founded and established; and this furnished an example of the way in which it is the will of the Lord that His Gospel should be propagated by His disciples, beginning in their own houses and their own country.

I really like Haldane's commentary. You can find it here: http://www.godrules.net/library/haldane/haldane.htm

carol

[Kneeling]

This is what Robert Haldane's Commentary on Romans says:

To the Jew first. — From the days of Abraham, their great progenitor, the Jews had been highly distinguished from all the rest of the world by their many and great privileges. It was their high distinction that of them Christ came, ‘who is over all, God blessed for ever.’ They were thus, as His kinsmen, the royal family of the human race, in this respect higher than all others, and they inherited Emmanuel’s land. While, therefore, the evangelical covenant, and consequently justification and salvation, equally regarded all believers, the Jews held the first rank, as the ancient people of God, while the other nations were strangers from the covenants of promise. The preaching of the Gospel was to be addressed to them first, and, at the beginning, to them alone,( Matthew 10:6); for, during the abode of Jesus Christ upon earth, He was the minister only of the circumcision, (Romans 15:8). ‘I am not sent,’ He says, ‘but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel;’ and He commanded that repentance and remission of Sins should be preached in His name among all nations, ‘beginning at Jerusalem,’ (Acts 3:26, 14:26). Thus, while Jews and Gentiles were united in the participation of the Gospel, the Jews were not deprived of their rank, since they were the first called.

The preaching of the Gospel to the Jews first, served various important ends. It fulfilled Old Testament prophecies, as Isaiah 2:3. It manifested the compassion of the Lord Jesus for those who shed His blood, to whom, after His resurrection, He commanded His Gospel to be first proclaimed.

It showed that it was to be preached to the chief of sinners, and proved the sovereign efficacy of His atonement in expatiating the guilt even of His murderers. It was fit, too, that the Gospel should be begun to be preached where the great transactions took place on which it was founded and established; and this furnished an example of the way in which it is the will of the Lord that His Gospel should be propagated by His disciples, beginning in their own houses and their own country.

I really like Haldane's commentary. You can find it here: http://www.godrules.net/library/haldane/haldane.htm

carol

Thanks carol for your post, and I have always heard that haldane was excellent on romans

[Jack Daw]

Carol,

Thanks for the Haldane reference, he answered my question perfectly.

[Robert R. Higby]

Jack:

What about Ruth? She was a Gentile yet she was saved. Surely the Gospel of God's salvation of all men (Jew and Gentile) was in effect already back then?

Yes, it was! The NT references that we are dealing with focus more on the gospel as it is clarified and preached after the coming of Jesus in the flesh. I'm glad that Haldane answered your questions.

There is nothing in the OT that would indicate salvation was limited to the Jews. Between Abraham and Christ God's revelation was given exclusively to them. However, God promised to bless all that 'blessed' Abraham and those to whom he was a blessing. This includes many that never became Jews but worshipped the God of Abraham as he was made known by revelation and the spreading of that knowledge to those in other nations.

[Kneeling]

Jack:

What about Ruth? She was a Gentile yet she was saved. Surely the Gospel of God's salvation of all men (Jew and Gentile) was in effect already back then?

Yes, it was! The NT references that we are dealing with focus more on the gospel as it is clarified and preached after the coming of Jesus in the flesh. I'm glad that Haldane answered your questions.

There is nothing in the OT that would indicate salvation was limited to the Jews. Between Abraham and Christ God's revelation was given exclusively to them. However, God promised to bless all that 'blessed' Abraham and those to whom he was a blessing. This includes many that never became Jews but worshipped the God of Abraham as he was made known by revelation and the spreading of that knowledge to those in other nations.

Amen, I also believe Job was an gentile believer in christ .

[Jack Daw]

Bob,

Those are my views exactly. You put it better than I did, hehe... Glad we agree!

[Dans la Musique]

Yes, as much as Israel seems to have gotten thrown around as a nation in the OT, God uses His elect to show His glory and that He is the one true Living God! There may have been many surrounding countries that the elect were in contact with, including Egypt...

It would be an interesting study to lay out all of the different times in the OT where God uses His elect as "messengers" to show His glory in them to other countries besides Israel.

[1tim1:5]

Dans la musique

"A few of Israels people were elect"

Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Wasn't all of Israel regarded as God's elect/chosen people?

james

[Whammer]

Dans la musique

"A few of Israels people were elect"

Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Wasn't all of Israel regarded as God's elect/chosen people?

james

I think Rom. 9:6 answers this quickly, but Romans 9-11 hits it pretty well,
James..........it has never............never been the "children of the flesh" who were the children of God...............Rom. 9:8.........look up the word "remnant" and see how that is used throughout the OT