Satan shall be loosed

[Brandan Kraft]

Brandon you explain that ? Why does not paul just say, after the 1st or 2nd admonition , just be patient and loving ?

Questions like these are not conducive to discussion! They are not asked from a genuine seeker, but from one who is seeking to win an argument. Therefore I will not answer. Please tone down your posts immediately.

[beloved57]

wb says:

Why will you not say what churches you attended?

That does not matter , what would that prove, you yourself go to a church that espouses the three unity , but you are a compromiser of the truth. You accept arminianism as true believers, when they reject the gospel truth of salvation by the sovereign grace of God. you have to accept them to remain popular in your denomination and also, you probably believe you were saved when you yourself believed an arminian form of gospel, didnt you ? You have never had the grace to admit when you believed that doctrine of the devil , that you were decieved , wretched and blind. you probably have told folks you had been called to the ministry , and probaby your first trial sermon was arminian, now you have grown from that spiritual immaturity..I may be wrong , maybe the first sermon you heard was a sermon about who christ is, and what he accomplished on the cross, and who he accomplished it for ! but if was , you have sure compromised the faith. I would not be caught dead in your church...

Why will you provide no explanation for why avoidance of doctrinal error is only necessary to prove regeneration but that outward sin is okay?

see how you fall into satans lie. Where have you seen written by me that outward sin is ok ? I like your approach though, very humanistic , and will certainly be ageeable to the masses, thats part of the lie of satan. 99.999 percent of people will be decieved into believing a religon is genuine or of God, if there is a strong emphasis on morals and outward conduct.

I have read your post and others for a while now, and I know your emphasis is more on the practical than on the doctrinal. Your sins are more inward whereby you accept false doctrine as of God. You accept the proud arminian doctrine that breaks and disregards the first table of Gods Holy Law, to me you and arminians have the greater sin.

proverbs 6 16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17A proud look,( arminianism) a lying tongue,( arminianism) and hands that shed innocent blood,
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19A false witness that speaketh lies,( arminianism) and he that soweth discord among brethren

you love those things and people that God hates , you want to be God like ? Hate false doctrine my friend.

psalms 119. 104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.= arminianism , free will salvation , universalim. No, you accept them as spiritual babes and being immature...You compromiser. Wb, no disrespect, but I wonder if people like you, who compromise the truth with the cloak of immaturity, have really been saved ? Just because you teach a sunday school class, and can quote a few scriptures , you seem to know a little church history, all that does not mean NOTHING....If you compromise the truth. When Paul came to the

8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: ( or maybe he meant the immature understanding)for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

My friend, The excellency of the knowledge of christ is His precious sovereign GOSPEL= That reveals him, not some arminian messed up confused, dont know if god is sovereign, don`t know if I had a choice, don`t know for sure who christ died for, craziness, which you endores and condone as true christianity. Wha t you believe is an AFFRONT to the holy Spirit of God who leads, enlightens, reveals the excellency of christ. And all you can muster up is What church I attened that teaches the three forms of chrisitian unity ? What unity ? Believe that jesus died for sinners unity ? Please give me a break on that...95 % of all false, God Forsaken religons in the world, will claim that Jesus died fpr the ungodly, its the bilble they say... I have a friend that I fish with. One day as we were waiting on them crappies to hit, We began talking about God. I asked him did he believe in Christ ? He said sure, I believe that christ died for my sins , I was taught that in church sunday school. I said, Oh I see. My next question was, do you believe that Jesus is God ? He said, I believe he is the son of God ! I said true, but He is God too. He said thats impossible, How can he be God and Gods son . I began to talk about the Trinity to him. He rejected the Ideal of the Trinity, and only accepts the title of Jesus being the Son of God in a non deity way. But He believes that he is a sinner, that the non deity christ died for sinners and every sinner, and based upon his traditional teachings he believes and sincerely beieves he is saved. You condone wether you realize it or not, that kind of foolishness. Only , difference is the deity and triunity of christ is rejected up front, but with arminianism, the deiety and Triune God are rejected as to being the reason why only some not all are saved. You would not dare call (at least I don't think you would) one who outwardly Denies the Deity of Christ saved or even immatutre , then again i might be wrong, because you will use the peter Illustration.

So lets do a fair trade off, I say ( so you say) that outward sin is ok ? And I say you believe that Inward sins of false doctrine are ok ! Fair enough ?

wb says :

I would suggest printing off this thread and letting someone you trust but that can be objective review it and see if they think you have proved your case.

Thanks for the spiritual advise counselor ! I don't suppose it would do you any good to print off and give to somebody to read ? Maybe one of those immature arminian believers you trying to grow up in the lord @ your beloved church...

It may be a good idea to share this thread with your wife even.

My wife has access to this site, she has the liberty to read it if she desires, you may want to share it with your wife...

wb says :

I have also asked you repeatedly what the great heresy is which makes it clear that the church has completely departed from the faith and you cannot tell me.

Are you kidding me, I have answered that question, 5000 times in 5000 different ways:

HERE IT IS AGAIN "ARMINAINISM" which you accept as an immature belief of the true Gospel, THATS IT....

If I went around and started saying that the 4H club was full of a bunch of commies and people said, "Why do you say that?" And I said, "Well just look at it!!!" don't you think people might think I'm a little nuts?

I'm nuts for jesus and his pure gospel.....

Jude

3Beloved,(57) when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

[GraceAmbassador]

proverbs 6 16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17A proud look,( arminianism) a lying tongue,( arminianism) and hands that shed innocent blood,
18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, 19A false witness that speaketh lies,( arminianism) and he that soweth discord among brethren

you love those things and people that God hates , you want to be God like ? Hate false doctrine my friend.

psalms 119. 104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.= arminianism , free will salvation , universalim. No, you accept them as spiritual babes and being immature...You compromiser. Wb, no disrespect, but I wonder if people like you, who compromise the truth with the cloak of immaturity, have really been saved ? Just because you teach a sunday school class, and can quote a few scriptures , you seem to know a little church history, all that does not mean NOTHING....If you compromise the truth. When Paul came to the

Okay! That to me is intolerable! To twist scriptures this way is literal and deliberate adding to the text something that is not there therefore more heretical than anything the Arminian can teach.

This is the same as the Charismaticas doing the following:

"Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free" (from debt, from poverty and disease. God has the obligation to heal you according to this verse. He also has the obligation to make you rich and free of debt)

"My God shall supply all of my needs according to His riches in Glory". (earthly needs, needs for a cadilac, a mercedes car in your garage and a Mercedes cute mexican maid in your home, and the need that you have to have a fat bank account)

"Give and it shall be given unto you". (So, if you give to MY MINISTRY, then it shall be given unto you, good measure, shaken together and running over)

"Hold fast to the confession of your faith". (So the Bible teaches that if you confess the right things in faith you shall have them. Things like a big house, a cadilac, the health of a 15 year old athlete and other things are yours... if you hold fast to the confession of your faith)

Add to it all the other scriptures that the cult mongers in the Charismatic movement use to justify their "doctrine" adding to the scripture something that is not there and you will have the same thing Beloved57 is doing here! Yes, I am saying that what Beloved57 is doing here is NO DIFFERENT than what the cults do and as such, a cult in itself!

Arminianism is a lie that God hates as He hates those who add to scripture something that is not there.

I apologize to the other moderators if I am being too blunt here, but adding to scriptures and interpreting texts in that way is in my opinion intolareble. Why not replacing the word Arminianism in the texts given by Beloved57 by any other word from a group we dislike... How about "Presbyterians, Reformed, those who root for the Yankees, those who don't like baseball, those who comb their hairs with a rigdge on the left, or those who like sushi"? I am serious, folks, we cannot allow this to go on. Imagine if we start a trend now to place parenthesis in every scripture adding to it what we like, dislike, agree or disagree?

Can anyone here be allowed to exegete the Bible that way? Were those scriptures really meant the way it has been twisted here?

To go back to discussing the "whore", this is the same kind of whorish thing that the whore does with the word of God!

Milt

[wildboar]

Beloved:

Since it is clear you are only interested in slander rather than honest discussion I will follow the advice you give in post 95 and stop posting in this thread. I think the moderators would be wise to shut the thread down at this point. If they don't that's their own business but I think the spirit in which you post has clearly been revealed. I hope and pray that God will turn your heart.

[Robert R. Higby]

Thanks to all for your candid comments.

Darryl, it is possible to over-analyze what someone is saying, jump to wrong conclusions, and put words in another's mouth that are completely foreign to what the person is actually thinking. I will just leave it at that. I think you have a tendency to do this with many of us here. That is not a word of condemnation, just an exhortation to step back and realize that the overall point of what someone says is the important thing. It is very wrong to look for false doctrine in every phrase or mode of expression that others might engage in.

Finally, on the point of 'who is Babylon' that we must leave, you state 'the church'. The trouble with this is that you must then define which institutions, assemblies, organizations, movements, etc. (collectively) 'the church' consists of. Generalizations will not do on a matter such as this. I would make the same point for those who want to equate the visible aspect of the NT ekklesia with an entity called 'the church.' Again, which institutions, assemblies, organizations, movements, etc. comprise this entity? I have found that this visible thing men call 'the church' is poorly defined no matter which side of the issue those who are wedded to the expression are on.

[GraceAmbassador]

Dear Brethren:

I am taking WB's suggestion and closing this thread. I am hoping that someone may reopen this issue in another thread where we can learn/teach sticking to the issues pertinent to the subject.

I consider this to be a issue of utmost importance and pray that those who join us in another thread in the subject, should we have one, may do so under the request of Bob Higby in the post above, which will be the rules for egaging in it.

Here are they:

...The trouble with this is that you must then define which institutions, assemblies, organizations, movements, etc. (collectively) 'the church' consists of. Generalizations will not do on a matter such as this. I would make the same point for those who want to equate the visible aspect of the NT ekklesia with an entity called 'the church.' Again, which institutions, assemblies, organizations, movements, etc. comprise this entity? I have found that this visible thing men call 'the church' is poorly defined no matter which side of the issue those who are wedded to the expression are on.

If you feel somehow limited or that you cannot abide by the request above, please, pray before you join the "future" thread on Church and Babylon or any other thread related to the issue in this now closed thread.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

Milt