The Elect

[7th]

James
3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3:3 Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
3:4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are
driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small
helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

James is preaching an important lesson here. Not many are to be masters (i.e. teachers) because those who teach will receive greater condemnation than those who don’t. In this statement a line is drawn. James is a master along with others who are few compared to the others who are also saved. This is the very core of who the elect are. They are teachers of The Word.

Does Christ teach this same thing? YES! On several occasions He teaches of the differences between the elect and the saved. Here is one of them:

Matthew
22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my
fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
22:5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Here Christ speaks a parable of a wedding. The king sends his servants to call the chosen to the wedding of His Son. They all gave petty excuses for not showing and so the king tells his servants to call any stranger off the streets that they can because the wedding is ready (few of whom were up to the task). We have here several characters:

The King – This is The Father
The King’s Son – The Christ
The chosen guests – The Isrealites who did not cleave to The Word but rather to the doctrines of men and traditions.
The strangers chosen to replace the petty guests – These are the gentiles later chosen to replace the unworthy guests who did not come when called. Incidentally, few of those called were chosen. Those that answered the call unprepared were dealt with QUITE severly (starting to think of James yet?).

That about covers it right? NO! There is still one other character:

The Bride – What is a wedding without a bride!? Who does the Son marry? The saved. The Bride represents the majority of man who is reconciled to The Son while the chosen guests or ‘elect’ bare witness.

This parable was a story of the chosen. It was a story that Christ aimed at the pharisees about the elect and how they fall short of there calling. So who are these chosen? Who are these elect of whom James preached that he was one? To understand this and BEFORE we go using our online search engines to find the word ‘elect’ and start teaching their meanings we must first understand to whom the majority of the letters which the apostles wrote were addressed. Whenever a letter was written to a church it was not written to the masses in the church but to those left behind by the apostles to lead and teach the newly established churches:

2Timothy
1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not
according to our works, but according to his own purpose and
grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and
immortality to light through the gospel:
2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ
Jesus. 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

This was a touching letter that Paul wrote to Timothy to strengthen and edify him in his election. 1:9 speaks of the same holy calling Christ teaches of in His parable of the wedding and how they were indeed not worthy of their calling but were saved by the grace of God. Even the elect can falter if they are not prepared for their calling as Christ states but Paul believes that even the elect are not worthy of their calling but like all men are saved by grace. No man called can ever believe he is worthy without sacrificing his salvation. In this way the elect can fall. The petty guests in Christ’s parable are testament to that.

Paul also writes something interesting. He instructs James to teach of the things Paul taught only to men of faith worthy of teaching others. There are lessons meant only for the elect. Does this mean that there are parts of scripture meant only for certain people? NO! Many wicked men would use verses such as this to enslave. All scripture is meant for all men to read. What Paul speaks of here is the depth understanding that Timothy, as one of the elect, was privy to. There are blessings of understanding meant only for the elect. Read Revelation and you'll find a powerful example of such.

Peter was a simple and straight forward man. It is no wonder he was chosen by Christ as the rock on which he would build His church. Here is what he has to say:

1Peter
1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered
throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through
sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the
blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy
priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by
Jesus Christ.
2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion
a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him
shall not be confounded.

Peter was a man of such few yet so vitally important words. Peter, in all the strength of his faith, which speaks so well of him, identifies himself as one of the elect. So here we are taught what James meant when he said ‘we’ in James 3:1. ‘We’ means the elect. The elect are teachers. They are speakers of God’s Word.

Paul goes on to explain how the elect have a chief teacher among them by whom they are taught. He is The Chief Corner Stone in the church built of the stones (elect). The Church is no building. The Church is no place of earth or stone. The Church is where the elect are. Wherever the elect teach, there is The Church. The Chief Cornerstone is The Christ. He is The Way, The Truth, and The Life. He is The Word. All who believe in Him will not be led astray. Least of all the elect.

Its noteworthy to mention something Peter says about the elect. They are foreknown of The Father. What does this mean? The elect are chosen ahead of time by God himself. How far ahead of time? Read:

Matthew
9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good
or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand,
not of works, but of him that calleth; )

The elect are chosen even before they are born. This is a far different standard for all who are to be saved by simply believing in Christ. All they have to do is hear. It is by their faith alone in The Christ that they are saved and nothing more is asked of them other than to repent whenever they sin by acknowledging and hating their sin, how it makes them unworthy, and asking God for forgiveness knowing that it is by His mercy alone and not by your acts that you are forgiven.

The saved are free to choose salvation or condemnation simply by choosing to believe in and follow The Word or not. The elect are not free. The OT writings of the prophets are full of how God chose His prophets regardless of whether they wanted to be the elect or not. Jonah is a famous example but their are others.

The elect are not given the choice of following The Word or not. They disobey at their own great peril and strife. Some even perished neglecting their calling. The Father truly is far more harsh a judge on His elect. All of the elect, like the saved fall short at one time or another. The Son came for them both but disobedience to the will of The Father is punished severally for the elect on earth. Their judgment comes every time they let their fear and self doubt get the best of them. Ah but they are so few and the harvest is so great. Pray, with me, that the Father hires more laborers.

[Word Walker]

Your thoughts are in overdrive again.... I hear what you're saying but it took me about 15 min to get there. Maybe a summary of you're specific points on this topic would be helpful for others. 100 Words or less.

Let's put it this way. Answering these questions might help.

- What is the difference between a Christian saved by faith and an elect of God?

- What does, "3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. " have to do with the rest of your article?

I'm not picking on you, just trying to clarify.

[7th]

Ha! I was just about to log off. So be it...

Originally posted by Word Walker
[B]
- What is the difference between a Christian saved by faith and an elect of God?

- The elect are predestined by God before their birth to accomplish a specific mission or missions. They alone are to accomplish the tasks that God chose them for. They cannot decide to forsake their election. Could Jonah? No. He was elect. Could Moses? No. Though hs 'smackdown' was not as severe as Jonah's Moses was reprimanded for whining about 'not being a good speaker' when God told him that he was to go to pharoh and deliver His people from affliction. Because God speaks directly to the elect they no longer have the burden of faith. This is why God judges them harshly every time they falter.

- The saved are done so by faith but they decide of their own free to believe or not. To obey or not. They can choose to obey or disobey and to believe or disbelieve and God is quite patient with them. They have only to decide to do it. Their judgement does not come everytime they falter. Because they carry the burden of faith their judgement comes once and for all at the end and it depends on whether or not they beleived.

What do you believe?

Originally posted by Word Walker
[B]
- What does, "3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. " have to do with the rest of your article?

This is actually a warning to those who would presume to be teachers of the damage they could do to themselves and to others. It doesn't have much to do with the article directly but I hate to quote scripture and leave the full concept of what I'm quoting out because some of it doesn't apply directly. I try to keep the thoughts expressed in the scripture I quote as complete as I can. In this case...it just seemed to complete the verses so I left it in there.

[Word Walker]

Do you believe there are those who are elect today? Or are the elect contained simply to the Prophets and apostles? Does God speak directly to anyone today? If so how would we know?

This is a bigger can of worms than you might realize and there are a lot of questions to go with it but I do agree that there are those that the Lord put aside to perform specific tasks and that they were chosen since before the world began.

[7th]

In all tings we know when we hear The Truth because two are always sent. One to prepare the way and the other to walk it.

Walk walker.

[Word Walker]

Originally posted by 7th
In all tings we know when we hear The Truth because two are always sent. One to prepare the way and the other to walk it.

Walk walker.

When I'm called, still there are many more out there more worthy than I. I simply do my part to spread the word of God as best I know and have no need for anyone to prepare the way.

Now...

- Do you believe there are those who are elect today?
- Or are the elect contained simply to the Prophets and apostles?
- Does God speak directly to anyone today?
- If so how would we know?

I think these questions are still in line with your article and was wondering on your opinion of these items.

[7th]

Originally posted by Word Walker

- Do you believe there are those who are elect today?

Yes.

Originally posted by Word Walker

- Or are the elect contained simply to the Prophets and apostles?

The prophets were elect. The apostles were elect. The Word continues call and train the elect born in these days.

Originally posted by Word Walker

- Does God speak directly to anyone today?

Yes

Originally posted by Word Walker

- If so how would we know?

If you are elect there is no way you cannot know. When God decides to call you there is no mistaking your election. You can deny your election like Jonah did. Like Jonah, you will fulfill what God has given you to fulfill regardless of your rebellion. Denying only brings you great pain and strife but in all things His will must be fulfilled. Jonah was chosen before his birth not because he was worthy but beacause it was God's good pleasure to do so. He was not his own. None of the elect are.

Now walker. Let me ask you a few questions:

Paul was the elect but he was also another excellent example of a wilfull son:
- When was his election made clear?
- Could he ever have mistaken it?
- Did he not go to Jeruselum when he was, infact, sent to Rome?
- How many years of his freedom did he lose as a result for this act of defiance?
- Where did he finally end up?

[Word Walker]

Paul was the elect but he was also another excellent example of a wilfull son:
- When was his election made clear?

Saul's election was made clear while on the road to Damascus(Acts 3-4). It is only in Acts 13:9 when they run into BarJesus the sorcerer that the Bible makes mention that his name is Paul.

- Could he ever have mistaken it?

I doubt it. I don't think God would have left any room for doubt.

- Did he not go to Jeruselum when he was, infact, sent to Rome?

Maybe.... In Acts 19:21 Paul says that he is moved through the spirit to go into Jerusalem. (Acts 19:21 After these things were ended, Paul purposed in the spirit, when he had passed through Macedonia and Achaia, to go to Jerusalem, saying, After I have been there, I must also see Rome.)

But in Acts 21:4 there were disciples who claimed to speak in the spirit who told Paul not to go. (Acts 21:4 And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem.)

Paul was warned what should happen to him should he go to Jerusalem but still felt that regardless of his fate, it was something he must do as it was in fact the will of the Lord. (Acts 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.)

In Acts 23:11 the Lord speaks to Paul and does not adminish him but rather tells him that a part of task is complete but now he must go to rome....(Acts 23:11 And the night following the Lord stood by him, and said, Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.)

Finally in Acts 26:16-20 Paul states that he is doing the will of God and not being disobedient to the heavenly vision by going first to Jerusalem.
(Acts 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.)

- How many years of his freedom did he lose as a result for this act of defiance?

I would have to say none since he was not disobedient or defiant by going to Jerusalem. <See Above>

- Where did he finally end up?

I'd have to say in heaven.

[7th]

We agree on the main point that God's will is served by the elect.

We also agree on the main point that the elect know their election and that God leaves no room for doubt in this. In this dicussion its all that really matters.

We disagree slightly about whether or not Paul was sent to Jeruselum. I feel that the reason why God told Paul to be of good cheer was because Paul felt badly about going to Jeruselum ready to die and in fact he did not but lost valuable time where he should have been in Rome. In His mercy He did not rebuke Paul twice (as I feel the fact that the journey to Jeruselum didn't quite turn out the way that Paul thought it would was rebuking enough for a man like him). Instead He told Paul not to worry for his life because he was still supposed to go to Rome. Nothing would change that. Not even Paul's disobedience and his wilfull statement that he was ready to die in Jeruselum (his life was not his own to risk in this manner although it was not truly a risk). In this way Paul was not disobidient because God used his wilfullness to accomplish His purpose.

Its a very fine point where you and I disagree here so I won't push it. There is plenty of room for both opinions. Since I felt this to be an opinion only I didn't included it in my original post but as usual you just pull it right outta me anyway. Well done. As always your honesty is much appreciated. Shall we get back to the main points about the elect? Is there anymore clarification required or are we done? You are the stickler for detail so if you feel a need to continue I'm all for it.

[Word Walker]

Originally posted by 7th
I feel that the reason why God told Paul to be of good cheer was because Paul felt badly about going to Jeruselum ready to die and in fact he did not but lost valuable time where he should have been in Rome. ... Not even Paul's disobedience and his wilfull statement that he was ready to die in Jeruselum.

If Paul was disobedient then how do you reconcile the fact that Paul said he was moved by the spirit to do so (Acts 19:21), that the other apostles who argued with him stopped ended their argument with "The will of the Lord be done". (Acts 21:13) and Paul himself says "I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision" (Acts 26:19).

I am curious to know what leads you to believe that he is guilty of disobeying God? Where it is mentioned in the Bible?

Is there anymore clarification required or are we done? You are the stickler for detail so if you feel a need to continue I'm all for it.

As to the elect, in the past they were elected directly through God or Jesus Christ (As in the case of Paul. Which is to say the same thing.) Do you believe that today someone would become elect in the same fashion such that we would have no doubt that God spoke directly to them? EG: Light from heaven & Gods voice speaking.

Do you have an example of someone today who you would consider to be elect of God?

Also I have a problem with the distinction between Elect and Prophet. The Prophets were elect but the elect are not neccessarily prophets? EG: An angel is a messenger of God but a messenger of God is not neccessarily an angel.
How does this scenario fit into the definition of elect?

[Word Walker]

I've offered a couple of studies for comparison on the "elect" of God for reference.

From: Catholic Encyclopedia

I. THE OLD TESTAMENT

The Old Testament applies the term elect, or chosen, only to the Israelites in as far as they are called to be the people of God, or are faithful to their Divine call. The idea of such an election is common in the Book of Deuteronomy and in Is., xl-lxvi. In Ps. civ, 6 and 43, and cv, 5, the chosen ones are the Hebrew people in as far as it is the recipient of God's temporal and spiritual blessings; in Is., lxv, 9, 15 and 23, they are the repentant Israelites, as few in number "as if a grain can be found in a cluster" (ibid., 8); in Tob., xiii, 10, they are the Israelites remaining faithful during their captivity; in Wisd., iii, 9, and iv, 15, they are God's true servants; in Ecclus., xxiv, 4, 13, and xlvi, 2, these servants of God belong to the chosen people.

II. THE NEW TESTAMENT

The New Testament transfers (excepting perhaps in Acts, xiii, 17) the meaning of the term from its connection with the people of Israel to the members of the Church of Christ, either militant on earth or triumphant in heaven. Thus I Pet., I, 1, speaks of the elect among the "strangers dispersed" through the various parts of the world; I Pet., ii, 9, represents them as "a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people", called from darkness into God's marvellous light. St. Paul, too, speaks of the elect (Rom., viii, 33) and describes the five degrees of their election: they are foreknown, predestined, called, justified, and glorified (loc. cit., 29, 30). He returns to the idea gain and again: II Thess., ii, 12 sq.; Col., iii, 12; Tit., I, 1, 2; II Tim., ii, 10. St. John gives the title of elect to those who fight on the side of the Lamb against the powers of darkness (Apoc., xvii, 14). According to St. Luke (xviii, 7), God hears the cries of his elect for vengeance; according to the first two Evangelists he will shorten the last days for the sake of the elect (Matt., xxiv, 22, 24, 31; Mark, xiii, 20, 22, 27).

If it be asked why the name elect was given to the members of the Church Militant, we may assign a double reason: first, they were freely chosen by God's goodness (Rom., xi, 5-7, 28); secondly, they must show in their conduct that they are choice men (Ephes., iv, 17). In the sentence "many are called, but few are chosen", the latter expression renders a word in the Greek and Latin text which is elsewhere translated by elect (Matt., xx, 16; xxii, 14). It is agreed on all sides that the term refers to members of the Church Triumphant, but there is some doubt as to whether it refers to mere membership, or to a more exalted degree. This distinction is important; if the word implies mere membership in the Church Triumphant, then the chosen ones, or those who will be saved, are few, and the non-members in the Church Triumphant are many; if the word denotes a special degree of glory, then few will attain this rank, and many will fail to do so, though many are called to it. The sentence "many are called, but few chosen" does not, therefore, settle the question as to the relative number of the elect and the lost; theologians are divided on this point, and while Christ in the Gospels urges the importance of saving one's soul (Luke, xiii, 23, 24), he alternately so strengthens our hope and excites our fear as not to leave us any solid ground for either presumption or despair.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05374a.htm

or

From: CARM

Elect, Election
The elect are those called by God to salvation. This election occurs before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4) and is according to God's will not man's (Rom. 8:29-30; 9:6-23) because God is sovereign (Rom. 9:11-16). The view of election is especially held by Calvinists who also hold to the doctrine of predestination.

http://www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_e-f.htm

or

From: James White, Alpha & Omega Ministry

But of far more concern and import to our debate is the attempt to deal in some fashion with the words of the Lord Jesus at John 6:35-45. There is truly no passage that is so clear, so cogent, so weighty in its teaching of the sovereignty of God in salvation and election than this. And certainly there is no end to the attempts that have been offered to get around the plain teaching it presents. But the text is clear. Jesus explains why men who have seen Him do not believe (6:36). He insists that ALL (not some, not most, but ALL) that the Father gives to Him will come to Him (6:37). Grammatically and syntactically, the act of giving by the Father must precede the coming to the Son. God acts in giving to the Son (election), the elected ones respond by coming infallibly to Christ in faith. Mr. Barksdale’s only way around this simple fact is to leave John completely and go to a disputed passage in Mark 16 which nowhere even attempts to address the relationship between the election of the Father and the response of the elect person. It is this "coming one" that is never cast out (6:37). The Lord goes on to explain the Father’s will for Him (v. 39): that of all that the Father has given to Him (here using the perfect de,dwke,n rather than the present di,dwsi,n used in 6:37 due to the gathering of the elect into a single whole, seen through the use of the neuter singular pronouns in 6:39), He lose nothing, but raise it up at the last day. He then identifies those who are so given by the Father as those who are coming and believing in Him (6:40). Remember, however, that Jesus has already indicated the relationship between being given and coming: the Father’s action precedes the action of man, and therefore determines it. This is re-iterated in 6:44, where the Lord makes it plain that no man has the ability to come to Him outside of the divine drawing of the Father, a drawing obviously that is limited to the elect, since it likewise results in their being raised up to eternal life. This is directly contradictory to Mr. Barksdale’s assertion that "ANYONE can come to Christ and be saved." Instead, Jesus taught that "whosoever will" is the key: and since no one will unless enabled by the Father (6:65), only the elect "will" do so.

http://aomin.org/JWDB7.html

In simple english the debate continues as to whether the "Elect of God" are those who accept Christ and are saved (which touches on the subject of pre-destination, another topic which is debated back and forth.) or a special few that are chosen from those who choose Christ.

What is your stand specifically and why?

[7th]

...vanity. You and I both know this study goes very deep. My own study is incomplete. It was complete enough to answer the question I was asked but to go deeper must be sought through much prayer, faith, and diligance. No man can give the deeper answers of such a study to another. Only The Word can.

It is vane to think that human wisdom can lead you to these answers. The highest wisdom a man can attain from another man is not the right answer but the right question to ask God.

I am more than happy to share my study with you as I continue. Perhaps we can continue the study together. But first thing's first eh? You have to ask to go on this trip. I cannot say what lies in the road ahead but surly I can say where we will end up if we seek The Word diligently. The same place Paul ended up. No?

[Word Walker]

Ok here's the problem I'm having.

I believe that all who ask for forgiveness through Jesus with a sincere and meek heart will be saved. Are these then the elect(chosen) of God?

There are those that are called for a higher purpose by God. Above that of the average Christian. Are these then the Elect(chosen) of God?

Which are the elect(chosen) the average Christian or those with a higher purpose?

Now read the following verse:
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Look above and see which you determined were the chosen.




My problem is this, those that are not chosen will be bound hand and foot, taken away and cast into outer darkness where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. These are the ones that were called but not chosen.

Matthew 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

- Does the "many' apply to the population as a whole or to Christians?
- Does the chosen apply to the "elect"? If so who are the elect?
- If you said the "elect"(chosen) were those with a higher purpose does this mean that all the other Christians will be cast "into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Do you see my proble? Maybe I'm not clear?

[7th]

...was received through prayer. I could not state it better than I did the first time. In short that entire parable was a lesson to the elect. Its a warning on how the elect can fall. Read:

Originally posted by 7th
Does Christ teach this same thing? YES! On several occasions He teaches of the differences between the elect and the saved. Here is one of them:

Matthew
22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
22:4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my
fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
22:5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
22:8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Here Christ speaks a parable of a wedding. The king sends his servants to call the chosen to the wedding of His Son. They all gave petty excuses for not showing and so the king tells his servants to call any stranger off the streets that they can because the wedding is ready (few of whom were up to the task). We have here several characters:

The King – This is The Father
The King’s Son – The Christ
The chosen guests – The Isrealites who did not cleave to The Word but rather to the doctrines of men and traditions.
The strangers chosen to replace the petty guests – These are the gentiles later chosen to replace the unworthy guests who did not come when called. Incidentally, few of those called were chosen. Those that answered the call unprepared were dealt with QUITE severly (starting to think of James yet?).

That about covers it right? NO! There is still one other character:

The Bride – What is a wedding without a bride!? Who does the Son marry? The saved. The Bride represents the majority of man who is reconciled to The Son while the chosen guests or ‘elect’ bare witness.

This parable was a story of the chosen. It was a story that Christ aimed at the pharisees about the elect and how they fall short of there calling. So who are these chosen? Who are these elect of whom James preached that he was one? To understand this and BEFORE we go using our online search engines to find the word ‘elect’ and start teaching their meanings we must first understand to whom the majority of the letters which the apostles wrote were addressed. Whenever a letter was written to a church it was not written to the masses in the church but to those left behind by the apostles to lead and teach the newly established churches:

[Word Walker]

By ignoring my direct questions and answering in the fashion you did, you gave a better reply than I thought you would.

What about the "Chosen guests"(Elect) are they not also part of the bride?

Off Topic (Maybe):

In revelations it says:


Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Revelation 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


This one really confuses me because...

- In verse 1 John says it is an angel who is speaking.

- In verse 2 (a bit of a side point) Gentiles will only be in the holy city for 42 months?

- In verse 3, as far as I know, it's still the angel talking and he says that he'll give power to HIS two witnesses.

- Now here in verse 4 these same two witnesses are the two "candlesticks" standing before the God of the Earth. Does Satan have dominion of the earth? (Luke 4:6&7) Or does God?(1 Corinthians 10:26) or is it man?(Genesis 1:26) Ultimately I'd say it's the Lords but who has dominion now?


I also remembered one verse saying that everyman should die once before judgement. (Hebrews 9:27) So I often wondered if Enoch (Genesis 5:24) and Elijah (2 Kings 2:11) were these two witnesses as they are the only two in the Bible that stand out as having not died but were "taken by God and was not" or taken up to heaven in a whirlwind on a chariot of fire.
What do you think of all this? This may be off topic or these may be very special elect of God.

[jhamrick]

Interesting topic. I was thinking the other day about the elect, and it ocurred to me that not all of the elect will be saved, unless you think that all the Jews will be saved. So, is it possible that the election is not unto salvation? I think so.
The elect in the old testament were the Jews. They weren't neccesarilly elected to Salvation, rather chosen by God to reveal himself to the rest of the world through them.
That is why the term "elect" refers to all Christians today. Not neccesarilly that we are predestined to be saved, but that he will reveal himself to the world through us.

[Word Walker]

I can certainly see, and agree, with your point of view. I think there may be some confusion however in terminology. For you the elect are the "chosen people" through whom God represents Himself.

For 7th the Elect are those that are singled out to perform special task for the Lord such as the Prophets and Apostles.

I believe both the "people" and the "persons" are groups chosen by God to perform a specific functions. The "people" such as Jews or Christians are used by God in the way that you mentioned and the persons are those selected by God, who do not neccessarily have to be "of the people", but are assigned special tasks by God.

After the resurrection of Christ, the body of Christians became the way God revealed himself to the world. Paul(Saul) persecuted the Christians and still he was chosen by God. paul was not of the people chosen by God to represent Himself, but was a person God chose outside of this to represent Him. (Make sense?)

I think that both you and 7th have good ideas and understanding of the Bible but that there is a difference of opinion where the word "elect" is concerned. We should then decide in which way "elect" is best used in the Bible and give the other idea a different name.

BTW: Let's not confused. The Jews are a special race in the eyes of God. They were chosen by God as special and will always remain so.

[Christ_†_Alone]

I also remembered one verse saying that everyman should die once before judgement. (Hebrews 9:27) So I often wondered if Enoch (Genesis 5:24) and Elijah (2 Kings 2:11) were these two witnesses as they are the only two in the Bible that stand out as having not died but were "taken by God and was not" or taken up to heaven in a whirlwind on a chariot of fire.

Some might say, they just haven't died yet... so that verse in Hebrews still stands...

Others might say, they were indeed very special elect of God, and that verse does not apply to them...

I honestly don't know, so I leave it be.

[Christ_†_Alone]

Originally posted by jhamrick
Interesting topic. I was thinking the other day about the elect, and it ocurred to me that not all of the elect will be saved, unless you think that all the Jews will be saved. So, is it possible that the election is not unto salvation? I think so.
The elect in the old testament were the Jews. They weren't neccesarilly elected to Salvation, rather chosen by God to reveal himself to the rest of the world through them.
That is why the term "elect" refers to all Christians today. Not neccesarilly that we are predestined to be saved, but that he will reveal himself to the world through us.

Can you please share a verse from Scripture that tells us some of the elect will not be saved?

[jhamrick]

I don't have a Bible in front of me(I'm at work), but it says that the jews will reject the cornerstone or something like that.

Are you going to deny that the jews were originally the elect?