I reread this post this morning:My questions to all of you are:Originally Posted by unhingedsquare
1. Who is the pharisee in this day and age?
2. Does blind adherence w/out question to creeds like the WCF (See Bob's teaching at:http://www.predestinarian.net/showthread.php?t=3775) constitute "phariseeism"?
3. Who and what is the great whore?
4. How does the local church and it's leadership fit into all of this?
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
1) who is a Pharisee in this day and age: anyone who trys to establish a righteousness of their own (Rom 10:3); who therefore is not submitted to the righteousness of Christ (Rom 10:4), therefore establishing that they are unregenerated..............2) does blind adherence without questions to creeds like the WCF constitute Phariseeism: I don't believe it is Phariseeism, for according to my definition of Phariseeism, modern day Pharisees (MDP's) are unregenerated, while many who blindly adopt creeds as the WCF I consider regenerate because they confess the gospel. Why they are so hung up on uninspired documents is beyond my comphrehension....for example: Lion has a thread on civil magistrates and many wonder how the Puritans promoted their brand of Roman Catholic Protestant Calvinistic Theonomy in "Puritan New England". Was it because it is in the Bible? Not in my KJV! Is it promoted in the Reformed Confessions? YES! And why do some brethren blindly hold to these reformed things? I don't know..........3) who and what is the great whore: the great whore is the Roman Catholic system. Revelation chapter 17 I THINK describes her perfectly: Rome has killed more of our brethren than any war and Rome sits on seven hills......it's pretty plain to me..................4) how does the local church and it's leadership fit into all this: any congregation that gathers and does not preach the true gospel promote Phariseeism and fuels the Whore. MY EXPERIENCE is that most congregations are products of false seminaries which have produced false leadership which has produced false brethren. I could attend anywhere the gospel is preached, but where is it preached without Phariseeism, hyper- Puritanism/creedalism, or Romanism?..........my experience is VERY FEW PLACES! Can't wait to hear from my "Reformed brethren"..........KK
Last edited by Kentucky Kid; 01-02-2007 at 12:05 PM.
All people in possession of the Old Adamic nature have a pharisee in his or her being. This manifests itself in looking at oneself for holiness which will manipulate God for eternal life, keeping eternal life, having more rewards in eternal life etc. In the cult of Judaism which in no way was the faith of Abraham the Torah was looked at and additional rules attached with no real desire to fear and serve God. Today you have groups which teach deeds not creeds. Others are nominal Christians who look to reestablish feasts to gain experience and fresh incite to the Gospel by participating in the events which looked forward to Christ's work. And each one of us who would look at our practices, lack of practices and Theological beliefs thinking that God is especially pleased with us as opposed to others. "Thank God I am not like that person over there."
Confessions are great tools and aids in study of the Word of God. The Word of God of course is to be looked at in determining to what point these church groups adhere to Christian doctrine. It certainly would be wrong to "blindly" adhere to any words of men. However, neither would I trust any group or individual who would say my only confession is the Bible for it would be impossible to come to any understanding of what that person or group maintains as true doctrine. I am Lutheran and am still wading through the Book of Concord, Luther's writings, those who were contemporaries and those who follow. Also on the web I listen to programming recorded from KFUO out of the St Louis seminary as well as pod-casted sermons and discussions. These are all held to Holy Writ as the final authority. This takes a lot of time but what else would I do for a hobby?http://www.kfuo.org/
The great whore in the early days of the Church is Judaism. That is the religion of the Israeli after the Babylonian captivity. As I mentioned before it was a perversion of the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Sacrifices were never presented to take away sin but rather as a remembrance of them and pointing to the coming of the Christ. That cult is still in existence today and seeks to convert Christians to it which are weak in the faith. Our sin nature loves that which looks like it is pleasing to God and is able to be done by us. It is also manifested in the teachings of Rick Warren in his purpose dribble. Deeds not creeds is the mantra for his so called new reformation. Liberalism also presents works that one can do to gain acceptance by caring for the body needs of people but not the soul. Roman Catholicism in addition hides the Holy Gospel behind deeds as acts of penitence. The list, of course, goes on we all have to beware lest we fall into any of those systems or make one of our own and become a whore.
The local church can of course fall into that even if it is sound biblically. There again the old Adam loves to rail against free grace and the idea God is not impressed with the righteous and pious acts of humans. The congregation is not a separate entity from the individual members. All of the members to one level or another will be having challenges with this. Those who do not attend local assemblies also are not immune to this influence. I have worked with many who seem to think God is especially pleased with them due to staying away from gathering together with others for worship, Bible studies and service to our Lord. When Jesus was on earth He was always gathering together with people. In the scriptures we are also shown He desires us to gather together to receive His gifts. This goes against our grain for we all would like it to be Jesus, the Bible and us alone and thank God we are not like those people over there.
God's peace. †
Arrogance cannot be avoided or true hope be present unless the judgment of condemnation is feared in every work. Martin Luther's Heidelberg Disputation, May 1518
The characteristics of a pharisee vary.
The bible gives a transcendant definition that is still common today.
http://www.spiritualabuse.org/hair/modernday.html
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.GALATIANS 5:22
The Pharisees were some of the worst murderers in recorded history; they conspired with the wicked Queen Salome in the late second temple era to exterminate all Hebrews who did not agree with them. We have looked at this many times in past studies.
The Talmudic Judaism of today is based on the doctrines of the Pharisees. They were always apostate; never part of the elect remnant within the historic people of God. They amalgamated the doctrines of Greek philosophers with the teachings of scripture from day one.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
I find this by CHS very true:
There is another sign of a hypocrite, and now it will get very personal to most of us here. Hypocrites are generally severe with others, and very lenient with themselves.
Have you ever heard a hypocrite describe himself? I describe him this way:—you are a mean, selfish person. “No,” he says, “I am not; I am economical.” I say to him, “You are dishonest, you are a thief.” “No,” says he, “I am only shrewd and clever.” “Well, but,” I say to him, “you are proud and conceited.” “Oh!” he says, “I am simply a well-bred person.” “Yes, but you are a flatterer and a cowardly fellow.” “No,” he says, “I am all things to all men.” Somehow or other he will make vice look like a virtue in himself, but he will deal the opposite with others. Show him a Christian who is really humble, and he says, “I hate his submissive ways.” Tell him there is one who is very courageous for Christ; and he says, “Oh! he is insensitive to the feelings of others!” Show him one who is doing what he can for his Master's service, spending, and being spent for him, and the hypocrite says that, “He is rash, and irresponsible, and extravagant; the man does not know what he is doing.” You may point out a virtue, and the hypocrite will immediately say it is a vice. Have you ever seen a hypocrite turn doctor? He has a plank of wood in his eye, large enough to shut out the light of heaven from his soul, but nevertheless he is a very skillful ophthalmologist. He waits on some poor brother, whose eye is a little affected with a speck of sawdust so tiny that the full blaze of the sun can scarcely reveal it. Look at our plank-eyed friend, he puts on a knowing look, and cries out, “Allow me to take the speck out of your eye.” “You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye” [Matthew 7:5]. There are people like that who make virtues in others into vices, and vices in themselves they transform into virtues.
Now, if you are a Christian, I will tell you what your spirit will be like, it will be the very opposite; you will always be making excuses for others, but you will never be making excuses for yourself. The true Christian, if he sees himself sin, mourns over it. He says to another, “Oh! I feel so sinful;” and the other one says, “I cannot really see it; I can see no sin in you; I could only wish that I were as holy as you.” “No,” says the other, “I am full of weaknesses.” John Bunyan describes Mercy, and Christiana, and the children, after having been washed in the bath, and sealed with the seal, as coming up out of the water, and being all fair and lovely to look upon; and one began to say to the other, “You are fairer than I!” and “You are more beautiful than I!” said another. And then each began to bemoan their own imperfections, and to praise the beauty of the others. That is the spirit of a Christian; but the spirit of the hypocrite is the very reverse; he will judge, and condemn, and severely punish every other man; and as for himself, he is exempt, he is a king, he knows no law, and his conscience slumbers and allows him to go on easily in the very sins which he condemns in others. This is a very prominent mark of the hypocrite, and I question whether all of us must not blame ourselves a little here.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.GALATIANS 5:22
God's Word clearly teaches us to be religious.
Jentley.
The only place where the word "religion" is used in the positive sense is the book of James.
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
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James 1:26-27 provides God's definition of religion. Any other definition is humanly contrived.
So much for Believers who try to slam other Believers for disagreements in Theology and practices by namecalling, using the word "religious."
God wants people to be religious.
Jentley.
So I take it God "wants" everyone to visit orphans and widows?
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
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Have you asked God about that? What would an "arrogant" person say ... ?
Well I believe God always gets what He wants? Don't you?
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
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There is no Scripture which shows God always gets what He wants. Is that your personal opinion?
I believe people who claim to be "mean" are actually just wus.
Did you ever ask God about religion?
Jentley.
Well if God doesn't get what He wants, He ain't ALL POWERFUL! If you believe God doesn't get what He wants, I have to assume you don't believe in the Sovereign I AM of Scripture.
AND YES, I can quote scripture. Search this forum, you will find plenty of support in Scripture for my position.
“He is in one mind, and who can turn Him? And what His soul desireth, even that He doeth” (Job 23:13)
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
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Can you think of anything God wants, but He does not get? I can.
Because God cannot be "turned," does not mean He gets all He wants. Because He has "desires," does not mean He does all He desires.
God is not Sovereign over my will to make decisions. Let's chat about Bible stuff.
Is God getting everything He wants in your life?
Jentley.
Jentley:
You identify yourself as a Calvinist and a full-preterist in your profile. By the way you present your arguments you are neither. Would you please be honest with us and represent yourself more clearly? We have a rule that if one misrepresents him/herself he is not welcome in this forum.
Can you give me a definition of what is a Calvinist?
Can you give ma a definition of what is to be a full-preterist?
Please, refrain from worn out "internet" definitions!
Also, the last thing you want, by your response to Brandan is Bible stuff...
Yes, everything in my life, good and bad was planned by God before the foundation of the world to exact in my life what He purposed in Christ. This is Bible stuff!
Thanks,
Milt
Grace Ambassador
A pitiful servant of God; a pitbull guardian of the message of Grace
My pledge to other members:
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. Prov 15:1
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver - Prov. 25:11
I agree, you only have to look at the attitude and actions of Saul/Paul to see what being a Pharisee had transformed him into.
And all in the Name of God!
It's no wonder that the Jewish non Christians ( Jews ) hated him so much, after he was born again.
Praise God for the Apostle Paul, what a faithful man.
'I will show him how much he must suffer for My Name.'
Bless you Lord.
David
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