A Homework Assignment

[Saint Nicholas]

1 Corinthians 3:10,11 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Romans 4:23-25 " Now it was not written for his sake alone, ( referring to Abraham ), that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."

Galatians 1:6-9 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

With the above scriptures in view, It is the contention of this author, that there was no clear representation of the Gospel from any writer from the close of the Apostolic era. However many writings, creeds, and statements were written from the second century through the fifteenth, that were void of the Faith that was once delivered to the saints.
As an eggshell is useless without it’s embryo. A nutshell is useless without it’s nut. An oyster shell is useless without it’s oyster. A clamshell void of it’s contents is also useless. So is a Church useless without it’s Gospel. These entities are void of food and nourishment to the body. And in the case of the church, it is void of spiritual nourishment to the soul. Again rendering them useless.

The homework assignment for the audience of this forum, is to produce at least a minimum of ONE written document from any author from the time frame of the second century thru the fifteenth, that clearly expounds or understands the Gospel.

We all have the writings of the new testament authors, and especially Paul’s clear explanation of the Christ event ( Gospel ). So, has churchmen from the close of the Apostolic era continued with the Gospel? Or have they fallen away from the Gospel?

Where there is no Gospel, there is no Christian Church.
When one claims to be a Christian and is void of the Gospel. He is a useless shell and a fraud.

Nicholas

[lionovjudah]

1 Corinthians 3:10,11 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Romans 4:23-25 " Now it was not written for his sake alone, ( referring to Abraham ), that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification."

Galatians 1:6-9 "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

With the above scriptures in view, It is the contention of this author, that there was no clear representation of the Gospel from any writer from the close of the Apostolic era. However many writings, creeds, and statements were written from the second century through the fifteenth, that were void of the Faith that was once delivered to the saints.
As an eggshell is useless without it’s embryo. A nutshell is useless without it’s nut. An oyster shell is useless without it’s oyster. A clamshell void of it’s contents is also useless. So is a Church useless without it’s Gospel. These entities are void of food and nourishment to the body. And in the case of the church, it is void of spiritual nourishment to the soul. Again rendering them useless.

The homework assignment for the audience of this forum, is to produce at least a minimum of ONE written document from any author from the time frame of the second century thru the fifteenth, that clearly expounds or understands the Gospel.

We all have the writings of the new testament authors, and especially Paul’s clear explanation of the Christ event ( Gospel ). So, has churchmen from the close of the Apostolic era continued with the Gospel? Or have they fallen away from the Gospel?

Where there is no Gospel, there is no Christian Church.
When one claims to be a Christian and is void of the Gospel. He is a useless shell and a fraud.

Nicholas

There has and ALWAYS will be a remnant according to Grace preserved even in the most dismal of times Nick. This will become a circular discussion very fast because we have to use YOUR understanding of the Gospel as the litmus test against all that was written.

But to play along in futility I will bite:

Waldensians, Gottshalk, Chrysostom, Augustine, and a few others are readable. Now before you attack every word written by these men, I am only saying they spoke amounts of truth far more than most today.

WHy not include present day then. Find one form the death of John, to July 1 2007

[Saint Nicholas]

Joe wrote:"There has and ALWAYS will be a remnant according to Grace preserved even in the most dismal of times Nick. I agree Joe. This will become a circular discussion very fast because we have to use YOUR understanding of the Gospel as the litmus test against all that was written. Joe, you are correct here. I believe there is only ONE correct understanding of the Gospel. I will state my position very clearly as if you already don't know this. I have written enough about this in other posts. The Gospel is the Justification of the Elect by strictly an Imputed, Alien, Forencic, and Extrincic righteousness. This righteousness, is to be found only in the person of Jesus Christ Alone, and Imputed to the Elect. By Faith Alone, in Christ Alone, we the elect understand this wonderful and blessed reality. I also will state that I firmly believe that this is what Paul the Apostle taught. And furthermore, I also believe I am in good company with the Saints throughout the ages who have also believed this blessed truth. Therefore, I also will confess that there is only One Gospel. All other gospels that try to add any form of infusion of grace, works or acts of the individual, as a basis and ground of Justification, are false. Now Joe......was that clear enough for you? And you are also correct in stating a litmus test. The doctrine of Justification is as equally important to the doctine of the Diety of Christ. They cannot be seperated.

But to play along in futility I will bite:

Waldensians, Gottshalk, Chrysostom, Augustine, and a few others are readable. Joe, just making general statements is not what I have asked. Please produce their writings pertaining to the Gospel. Now before you attack every word written by these men, Joe, again I ask please produce their writings. This post is for serious discussion, not to play the attack game as you so wrongly have concluded. I am only saying they spoke amounts of truth far more than most today. Again Joe, please produce their writings so we on this forum can decide for ourselves, rather than take your word on this.

WHy not include present day then. Because I am only seeking information on that particular period of history, and I would like to involve all on this forum to aid in this quest. Find one form the death of John, to July 1 2007 Joe please, try not to infer anything else into this assignment. If you want to help, then help. If not, try to refrain from sidetracking this thread. If you want to change the dates, then start your own thread.

Nicholas

[Robert R. Higby]

The homework assignment for the audience of this forum, is to produce at least a minimum of ONE written document from any author from the time frame of the second century thru the fifteenth, that clearly expounds or understands the Gospel.

I, for one, cannot. I spent hours and hours during my last and fateful quarter in seminary (Fall 1980) trying to find such evidence in the 'Fathers.' or other material. I came up totally empty.

This does not mean that no one in this period had a grasp of the apostolic gospel, of course. It simply means that we have no such writings available from those that the Papacy elected to preserve to support its own agenda. The writings of true gospel believers (considered heretics by those who GOT THE POWER) were destroyed!

[Saint Nicholas]

The homework assignment for the audience of this forum, is to produce at least a minimum of ONE written document from any author from the time frame of the second century thru the fifteenth, that clearly expounds or understands the Gospel.

I, for one, cannot. I spent hours and hours during my last and fateful quarter in seminary (Fall 1980) trying to find such evidence in the 'Fathers.' or other material. I came up totally empty.

This does not mean that no one in this period had a grasp of the apostolic gospel, of course. It simply means that we have no such writings available from those that the Papacy elected to preserve to support its own agenda. The writings of true gospel believers (considered heretics by those who GOT THE POWER) were destroyed!

Thank you Robert for your honest and thoughtful answers. I am in total agreement with you, in that there were elect saints who carried on the torch of the TRUE GOSPEL during that period. Even to their death.

With the rise of the un-biblical clergy system, the bishops assumed autonomous control over the minds of the laity, thus confining and relegating all decisions, doctrine, and dogma, in the hands of these bishops. Any dissenters were either ex-communicated, went into hiding, tortured, or killed.

These attitudes seem to be consistant with all false religions. Only those who are blind or willingly ignorant of history, will try to disagree.

Nicholas

[Robert R. Higby]

Thanks Nicholas!

This is one issue that I need to dig into again, considering that there may be fresh information due to the extensiveness of the net. There may have been some writings preserved and uncovered that escaped the Papal fire.

Gospel blessings to all. --Bob

[mycross]

This is my first time on this site. I find the assignment very interesting and intriguing. I am in complete agreement with the initiator of this assignment.

I know this is not the answer you are looking for but just expressing my thoughts about the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yes, there is a remnant in every generation. Jesus Christ is purposefully and quietly separating the sheep from the goats as the word bears witness.

Perspectively, with a lowly heart and also a seminarian received only bits and pieces of what the church fathers believed to be correct about the gospel of Jesus Christ. I know for a fact that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is true and it is a personal encounter with the King and His kingdom. The gospel of Jesus Christ is according to the measure handed to the individual.
The question is asked, who can bear it? Is it not God's kingdom a mystery? Is it not without warning?--the unawareness and sudden personal experience for no one knows the time or hour? According to Jesus' doctrine only the witnesses, the elects can testify to their experience. But a God-given testimony has never been accepted before, during Jesus' time and after Jesus' time. He was outrightly rejected and also all His disciples. It is the same pattern a born again by the Spirit of God encounters today and will continue to be. For this reason Jesus says repeatedly, "You do not understand the Scriptures neither the power of God".

Everything that is true of God is a lie to man without spiritual understanding, hence persecution and longsuffering for the chosen. It was good having this exchange.

May the mercy, peace, love and faith be with you.
IRose

[Robert R. Higby]

Thanks for your thoughts, I agree with you! Bro. Bob