Here is a link to one scholar's perspective on the eternal destiny of John Paul II:
http://www.faithdefenders.com/minist...For+Christ.htm
Comments and reaction?
Here is a link to one scholar's perspective on the eternal destiny of John Paul II:
http://www.faithdefenders.com/minist...For+Christ.htm
Comments and reaction?
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
I believe Dr. Morey is correct in his assesment of Mr Crane, the Headmaster of Maranatha High School.
However, I also think that Dr. Morey would find (if he would carefully examine) that the whore system or one of her daughters is alive and well within the walls of California Biblical University and Seminary and also within his own church that he frequents. My words here are certainly not to serve as an indictment on Dr. Morey's status as an elect believer, although I do think that clinging to the sectarian idea of the local church in most cases (99%, give or take a percent), is part of that same false framework.
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
I would have to agree with many things that Dr. Morey said here, I have never read him before, but one thing that did stand out like a sore inconsistent thumb, was point #e in the letter........"What you believe will determine where you will spend eternity. "
So much for God determining such things before the creation of the world.
At a glance.......
Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.
It certainly would be best, in stead of stating "what you believe determines where you will spend eternity," to state that "what you believe is a barometer of where God has determined you will spend eternity."
I do think that clinging to the sectarian idea of the local church in most cases (99%, give or take a percent), is part of that same false framework.
I agree with you Greg, however, I'm not sure that some of our readers here would immediately recognize where you are coming from. If you could give a few 'bullet point' examples of the sectarian idea 'in the image of the whore' you are referring to--that would be great.
--Bro. Bob
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
A few bullet points from me would be:Originally Posted by Robert R. Higby
These are just a few points, I could go on and on. Maybe I should do a top 10 list like Letterman.
- The importance of the supper and baptism being christendumbed to the point of being called "sacraments"
- Sabbatarianism (holding to the sabbath)
- The idea of a monologue sermon being the norm instead of dialogue among the ekklesia.
- Reformed pastors wearing dresses/robes (doesn't the Catholic Church wear the same garb?)
- We are told that the law is not for today... well except for that tithing thing and showing up for "church" on Sunday.
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Thanks Greg!
I would add something to this list: acceptance of the creedal authority of certain ancient confessions; i.e., the 'majority' views of 'fathers' and 'reformers' on a whole host of issues (the origin of evil, the immediate imputation of Adam's sin, the exact extent of what constitutes scripture and the hermeneutic to discern such, common grace, common wrath, ANY sublapsarian tendency on discerning God's sovereignty, etc.).
To my knowledge, Dr. Morey also rejects SOME of your bullet points (sacraments, Sabbath, tithing (?)). I don't know about the prominence of the sermon, etc.--he may very well believe that. I personally do not believe in the prominence of oratory but do accept the prominence and importance of teaching by those gifted of God. However, teaching should NEVER eclipse direct interaction with the body--lest it become monologue which has no idea of whether those to whom it is directed believe it! On the matter of church attendance, well, we certainly are not obilgated to attend the churches promoted by those men teaching false doctrine but we do have an obligation to meet or interact with the true body of Christ.
--Bob
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Does anyone want to comment on the original question of this thread?
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
What was the original question?
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
Follow me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/kraftb
Follow Predestinarian Network on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/predestinarian
Follow Predestinarian Network on Twitter: http://twitter.com/predestinarian
Is the perspective on the destiny of Pope John Paul II legitimate and does it emulate an approach that we should be taking on such issues? I'm sorry, I should have phrased it as a question before posting the link.
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Yeah, I think the perspective is a legitimate one, it seems to me that we already use the approach itself as Brandan has fired off some good letters for correction and warning to several in the past, which have also strengthened brethren here to stand firm on gospel essentials that have been listed in this thread
Jn 14:23-24, (NASB)
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, BUT The Father's Who sent Me.
I concur with Robert Morey on his assessment of John Paul II. Truth is truth. We as an elect people should always accept and agree to truth, and likewise always reject error.
As far as Mr Morey's letter written to Maranatha High School, I may have written it a little different, but I do share his concern.
As far as emulating approaches that we should take, our main concern on this forum is to exalt Christ and the Pristine Gospel of Grace Alone. Even if it leads to addressing Mr. Morey on some of our disagreement with him whatever they may be.
No one is immune from critique, as long as our critique is manifested to edify all of the Body of Christ.
Nicholas
And he said , Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:65
I don't agree with Morey's approach or letter at all - I'll go into detail in a little bit. - Brandan
Ditch the Garbage! - Too many people are proud of their humility - I, on the other hand, am not humble - and am proud of it!
"Luther's New Testament was so much multiplied and spread by printers that even tailors and shoemakers, yea, even women and ignorant persons who had accepted this new Lutheran gospel, and could read a little German, studied it with the greatest avidity as the fountain of all truth. Some committed it to memory, and carried it about in their bosom. In a few months such people deemed themselves so learned that they were not ashamed to dispute about faith and the gospel not only with Catholic laymen, but even with priests and monks and doctors of divinity." - A complaint by German humanist Johann Cochlaeus.
Follow me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/kraftb
Follow Predestinarian Network on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/predestinarian
Follow Predestinarian Network on Twitter: http://twitter.com/predestinarian
Well, I'll probably see him this Sunday so if you have a personal message . . . Ah, I doubt if it's a good idea!
He is a great preacher of Grace, though, in spite of all his goof-ups. Beats Piper, MacArthur, Sproul, Kennedy, and a host of others hands-down.
--Bob
Now see here how sleepy-headed all our opponents are, and how little it helps a man to rely on the ancient fathers, for all their repute down the course of the ages! Were they not all equally blind to, yes, and heeldess of, Paul's clearest and and plainest words?
--Martin Luther
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks