A true altruistic act....

[Corbin]

What do you all think of "altruistic" acts? Do any of you believe in them? Do you believe it's possible for someone to do something kind for someone else, when it as no personal pay value?

[GRANTM]

Providing that By "personal pay"you mean a tangible Pay back

Yes and many peple and Corporations do

One Example Is that People Donate To Greenpeace however
Greenpeace does not file the papers to governments to acquire a
a tax license, repeat donations to Greenpeace therefore would be Altruistic.


If By What you mean By Personal Payback includes the intangible
Then I am much more skeptical Because then god would thank-you

[Fledge]

I agree with GRANTM, if by personal pay value you mean money, items, reward of anything remotely material or financial...then yes, many people do such acts.

However, if I perform one of these acts, because I feel good about it, I feel a sense of accomplishment, I rejoice in seeing another benefit from my action...then no. That is a reward in itseld. And everybody does things for such reasons.

Even if it is out of obligation, a duty you must perform but you don't get paid or rewarded (materially, or financial), you still have fulfilled that obligation and have a sense of peace about it, or a weight off your shoulders knowing you have gotten it taken care of. That is also a type of reward.

[Lousy Chef]

If we are totally depraved, how do non Christians know to do, and do, good things?

[GRANTM]

GREETINGS :Lousy chef

Quote:

If we are totally depraved, how do non Christians know to do, and do, good things?


I am a non-christian myself But a believer in God

The only thing,it seems,about you that is depraved is when you force somebodt to eat your cooking. LOL

Have a good one.

[Fledge]

Regardless of yours or my view of total depravity, anybody can still do an act simply, purely out of the kindness of their heart.
It may not be for the glory of God, it may not be an act comitted in the "name of Jesus". It may just be done because it was simply the right thing to do. Most people do have a general sense of right and wrong.

[Corbin]

When you do such acts, "Out of the goodness of your heart" you DO get some personal pay value. Like you said earlier, everything we do has pay value. It's what drives us to do EVERYTHING. Say we make an anonymous donation...and NO ONE knows of this but ourselves, we still are fufilling something. Perhaps it is our own personal self-need to reinforce our veiw of ourselves. Like I've said before, our creatice sub conscious makes sure that "we" act like "us". It will take the neccasary actions to ensure that we go on living the way that we see ourselves. We can change this, by consciously making an effort into changing our veiw of ourselves.

So even though you may not think that you are getting any "pay value" out of something, you are probably very wrong. We just might not be consciously aware of this.

[Lousy Chef]

If you are an unregenerate sinner, then you have no goodness in your heart to do any good from. I'm not the one who defined Total Depravity, it's the first letter in TULIP.

There is none righteous, no not one.

The heart is desperately wicked.

Man can do no good because he has no good in him, he is TOTALY depraved.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

[GRANTM]

Hi Fledge

Originally posted by Fledge

Regardless of yours or my view of total depravity, anybody can still do an act simply, purely out of the kindness of their heart.
It may not be for the glory of God, it may not be an act comitted in the "name of Jesus". It may just be done because it was simply the right thing to do. Most people do have a general sense of right and wrong.

Oh so true.

Greetings Corbin.

Quote
{Perhaps it is our own personal self-need to reinforce our veiw}

I agree My previous postings have stated that I believe that
Mankind is basically Insecure and needs self-justification

Quote:

{It will take the neccasary actions to ensure that we go on living the way that we see ourselves. We can change this, by consciously making an effort into changing our veiw of ourselves.}

Is this then not the "freewill" that everyone tosses around.

Please follow

If god is omnipotent and omni-present (O-O) then it stands to follow that as his spirit flows through you and guides you , you being the object, recieve your guidnce relative to what you are doing. How you interprete and act or not act is up to you,


Qoute:
{even though you may not think that you are getting any "pay value" out of something, you are probably very wrong. We just might not be consciously aware of this.}


Agreement, for you consider intangible as a payback.



Lousy Chef

Quote.

{TULIP.}

I am completely in the dark of TULIP prehaps if you, or anyone else . can provde me with details i would like to look it up,
having said that.

Quote:

{There is none righteous, no not one.

The heart is desperately wicked.

Man can do no good because he has no good in him, he is TOTALY depraved.

Our righteousnessis as filthy rags}

on face value this comment has no face value, and without
knowing the context that it was said ,is an example of the religious extremism " My way or no-way" " follow me or else"
"everyone is wrong but me"

What complete non-sense.

[Lousy Chef]

TULIP stands for the five points of Calvinism. THey are outlined elsewhere on this site.

As to the other quotes, they are all scripture. And the Holy Spirit told me the interpretation of them. That's how it works, see. I just read the Bible, and pray with sincerety that the Holy Spirit will tell me the meaning. The Bible is all I need. If it's not as clear to you as it is to me, then one of us must be listening to a false spirit. We both cant be right. If that's spiritual elitism, so be it. Jesus said His way was narrow.

[GRANTM]

Greetings Lousy Chef.
[QUOTE][
{TULIP stands for the five points of Calvinism. THey are outlined elsewhere on this site. }

Thank you for this Info

Quote:

{As to the other quotes, they are all scripture. And the Holy Spirit told me the interpretation of them. That's how it works, see. I just read the Bible, and pray with sincerety that the Holy Spirit will tell me the meaning. The Bible is all I need. If it's not as clear to you as it is to me, then one of us must be listening to a false spirit. We both cant be right. If that's spiritual elitism, so be it. Jesus said His way was narrow. [/B][/

Good for you, and that is meant with all sincerity.

I do not believe that one of us is listening to a false spirit ( for in my definition of God being O-O) what we have are different interpretations of the same spirit. Which is why there are so many different churches and sects with-in Christianity. God gives us freewill to chose which church you wish to subscribe to.

In my case it is to none of them but I still believe in God, and freewill.

Your choices are your choices, and therefore must be respected and I do respect your choices. Mutually disagree maybe, but respected nonetheless. Hence forums such as these.