The external call of the gospel

[beloved57]

ug says

How can one be "disobedient" when there's no command to be obedient present???? LOL ROFL. That's NONSENSE. What are they "disobedient" to?

Because they dont obey the gospel does not mean they were called to , show in scripture where this is true..

Every single person God calls to believe the gospel does so sir every single person God calls to repent will repent..

The call for repentance only goes out to the regenrate..

Jesus does not call all to repent sir matt 9 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. These sinners are those who have been given godly sorrow by regeneration..Kingdom children

Jesus is plainly saying if you are not regenrated I am not calling you..

matt 5:


3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted

Only those effectually made to see their sinnership by regeneration are those the gospel calls to repent..

You can belive if you want that God calls the children disobediance to repent and you will be a law preacher..lol

[Highlyfavored]

ug says



Because they dont obey the gospel does not mean they were called to , show in scripture where this is true..

Every single person God calls to believe the gospel does so sir every single person God calls to repent will repent..

The call for repentance only goes out to the regenrate..

Jesus does not call all to repent sir matt 9 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. These sinners are those who have been given godly sorrow by regeneration..Kingdom children

Jesus is plainly saying if you are not regenrated I am not calling you..

matt 5:


3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted

Only those effectually made to see their sinnership by regeneration are those the gospel calls to repent..

You can belive if you want that God calls the children disobediance to repent and you will be a law preacher..lol

Daryl, I am curious. In light of your statements in this post, how do you reconcile it with this scripture?

Mt 22:1-46, (NASB)
1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying,
2 "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.
3 "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.
4 "Again he sent out other slaves saying, 'Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."'
5 "But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,
6 and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.
7 "But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.
8 "Then he said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
9 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.'
10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
12 and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

[beloved57]

hf ask

Quote:
Mt 22:1-46, (NASB)
1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying,
2 "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.
3 "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.
4 "Again he sent out other slaves saying, 'Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."'
5 "But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,
6 and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.
7 "But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.
8 "Then he said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
9 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.'
10 "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
12 and he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

This has to do with the gospel first coming to the jews , has nothing to do with God calling the non elect to repent..

As the call to savation went out to the chosen jews the election of grace in that nation , for there was a remnant Jesus went for :

matt 10:

But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

matt 15 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


rom 11 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


The non elect of that nation was never the object of Jesus christ bringing to repentance..

In fact he tells some of them..matt 23 33

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

You must not allow a seemingly obscure parable dictate or contradict the overall symmetry of scripture..

Jesus did not come to the Land of palestine to call the unregenrated , self righteous Jews to repentance..

matt 9

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

So do you believe in light of this that Jesus came to call the whole nation to repentance ? Yes or no..

[Whammer]

No one of us who love Jesus Christ have been given an "electo-meter"...no one of us has been handed the "Lamb's book of life" so we all proclaim to every man we have oportunity to do so with......as much as the whole counsel of God that we are able, the gospel.
We, with that lack of knowledge, follow Paul's example in 2 Cor. 5:20 and it always turns out to be that we are....2 Cor. 2:15-16
So quite simply, God uses the foolishness of gospel proclamation to save His sheep.......the rest who simply hear the proclamation we make (the reprobate, whoever they may in fact be...and we dont know at this time)
continue to be what they are and call God and us....liars.
As Paul says to the Romans....they "treasure up, or store up/build up" wrath against themselves....the more they hear (but dont percieve), the worse it is for them in judgement.
Darryl, nobody here is saying that a goat will become a sheep or vice versa, or that God Himself cant tell the difference, or that God makes phoney offers of hope to reprobates.........you're just being plain argumentative

[Brandan Kraft]

Darryl, nobody here is saying that a goat will become a sheep or vice versa, or that God Himself cant tell the difference, or that God makes phoney offers of hope to reprobates.........you're just being plain argumentative

Agreed Bryan. Darryl, I perceive you to be arguing for argument's sake. Back off please. Thanks. - Brandan

[beloved57]

Agreed Bryan. Darryl, I perceive you to be arguing for argument's sake. Back off please. Thanks. - Brandan

I never made that accusation[ that you say goats become sheep] ..show where I made that accusation..My point is merely the gospel ministry is not to call men in general to no kind of obediance period.. but only for the outcalling of the elect. You dont have to know who the elect are to present the facts of the gospel as to what christ accomplished for his people..This has nothing to do with men having to obey and submit to God, thats law..

[Whammer]

I never made that accusation[ that you say goats become sheep] ..show where I made that accusation..My point is merely the gospel ministry is not to call men in general to no kind of obediance period.. but only for the outcalling of the elect. You dont have to know who the elect are to present the facts of the gospel as to what christ accomplished for his people..This has nothing to do with men having to obey and submit to God, thats law..

You are just making unnecessary distinctions/implications in this thread, so just as Brandan said......"please back off"

[Saint Nicholas]

Darryl......I have been reading all the dialogue between you and others, and have held back for quite some time.

This excessive knit picking of words in not good. It seems to me, (and I could be wrong on this), that you are being argumentive just for the sake of being argumentive.

Now to the question I have for you. When you refer to the word "call", Do you automatically assume this word to mean "Effectual call" in all it usages in scripture? A simple yes or no is all I'm asking here.

Nicholas

[beloved57]

Darryl......I have been reading all the dialogue between you and others, and have held back for quite some time.

This excessive knit picking of words in not good. It seems to me, (and I could be wrong on this), that you are being argumentive just for the sake of being argumentive.

Now to the question I have for you. When you refer to the word "call", Do you automatically assume this word to mean "Effectual call" in all it usages in scripture? A simple yes or no is all I'm asking here.

Nicholas

My answer is this , The Gospel ministry is associated with only the effectual call..Yes..

2 thess 2

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And its not nic picking its a big difference in preaching and witnessing the gospel with a view to bringing the elect to repentance because of grace and preaching repentance in a view of a general duty towards men. I stick by that thick or then..and whats amazing none have been able to refute or dis prove all the scripture I have given to support my conviction..None of you..

[Brandan Kraft]

I stick by that thick or then..and whats amazing none have been able to refute or dis prove all the scripture I have given to support my conviction..None of you..

What amazes me is your overly aggressive, argumentative and condescending attitude!

[beloved57]

What amazes me is your overly aggressive, argumentative and condescending attitude!

call it what you will I have been getting attacked and bombared on this board since I been back and I know I have given much truth , maybe some things too you dont agree with but thats fine I dont agree with a lot of things here but all has been critical and condensending to me..If you give it be able to take it and I have been holding back trust me..

[Brandan Kraft]

call it what you will I have been getting attacked and bombared on this board since I been back and I know I have given much truth , maybe some things too you dont agree with but thats fine I dont agree with a lot of things here but all has been critical and condensending to me..If you give it be able to take it and I have been holding back trust me..

You don't know what it's like to be attacked and bombarded if you say this board has been hostile toward you! You remind me of the guy walking down the street that starts taking swipes at his shadow for "attacking" him!

[beloved57]

You don't know what it's like to be attacked and bombarded if you say this board has been hostile toward you! You remind me of the guy walking down the street that starts taking swipes at his shadow for "attacking" him!

Look sir I believe that God has no desire whatsoever for the nonelect to repent to submit , I believe His desire for them is to remain obsinate and disobediant until the day of their final condemnation..

Jn 12:


37But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

IMO Gods call to faith and repentance is to His unconverted elect..

Thats what I believe ..

[Brandan Kraft]

Look sir I believe that God has no desire whatsoever for the nonelect to repent to submit , I believe His desire for them is to remain obsinate and disobediant until the day of their final condemnation..

I agree! So stop arguing for the sake of arguing!

[Saint Nicholas]

[quote=beloved57;55312]

My answer is this , The Gospel ministry is associated with only the effectual call..Yes..

Are you saying then that when you preach the Gospel to an audience of 50 people all 50 people are going to be saved? If indeed the Gospel ministry is associated with ONLY the effectual call..

I think you misinterpret where most of us stand on this issue. Can you state the real disagreement you have with us?

2 thess 2

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

It is true that God calls the elect only by His Gospel. But did the Apostles know who the elect were? Did not the Apostles go into city after city and preach to ALL the Gospel? If they were rejected, they were told to move on and shake the dust off!

And its not nic picking its a big difference in preaching and witnessing the gospel with a view to bringing the elect to repentance because of grace and preaching repentance in a view of a general duty towards men.

It is nit-picking!! Where do we disagree in your above statement? When I propose the gospel to someone, I always present it with the view that if they are elect they will one day believe. And if they are not elect, they will not obey the Gospel. So what's your point?

I stick by that thick or then..and whats amazing none have been able to refute or dis prove all the scripture I have given to support my conviction..None of you..

Again Daryll, please state in clear terms your disagreement.....Please!
In your own words, what to you think we are saying, as opposed to what you are saying?

Nicholas

[beloved57]

st nic ask

Are you saying then that when you preach the Gospel to an audience of 50 people all 50 people are going to be saved? If indeed the Gospel ministry is associated with ONLY the effectual call..

I think you misinterpret where most of us stand on this issue. Can you state the real disagreement you have with us?

No sir..This is what I mean..I am given opportunity to speak the gospel to 50 people..in that group 1 person is elect. My voice is being heard by all in the room as I give testimony of Gods Saving grace.. That 1 person recieves the testimony of the gospel of grace..Gods call was effectual to the chosen 1 elect..though the others heard the testimony of the gospel the call technically was not for them.. They only heard it as it was directed by the sovereign Spirit to that elect who was in there precense..

Thats what I believe many are called few are chosen means..because the preacher may audibly call many at the sound of his voice but thats not Gods purpose Gods purpose was to call the chosen one the elect..

So Gods call though to the elect did confirm the non elect in their unbelief because they believed not the record God has given of His son via the faithful proclamation to the gospel..which makes God a liar..

[beloved57]

st nic says

It is nit-picking!! Where do we disagree in your above statement? When I propose the gospel to someone, I always present it with the view that if they are elect they will one day believe. And if they are not elect, they will not obey the Gospel. So what's your point?

Look st nic you just entered this discussion so up till now nothing I have said would have applied to you now would it ?


My main premise has been that the preaching of the gospel is a call to the elect. Its not a call for the non elect in any shape form or fashion...There is no call to the non elect none..

They are under judgment until the day of judgment..

2 pet 2 9

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

God does not want there repentance their subjection their nothing but he wants them to continue in disobediance and rebellion so He can Judge them the more ..

Now if we agree fine that would be great..if not I understand..

[Saint Nicholas]

My answer is this , The Gospel ministry is associated with only the effectual call..Yes..

2 thess 2

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And its not nic picking its a big difference in preaching and witnessing the gospel with a view to bringing the elect to repentance because of grace and preaching repentance in a view of a general duty towards men. I stick by that thick or then..and whats amazing none have been able to refute or dis prove all the scripture I have given to support my conviction..None of you..

st nic ask



No sir..This is what I mean..I am given opportunity to speak the gospel to 50 people..in that group 1 person is elect. My voice is being heard by all in the room as I give testimony of Gods Saving grace.. That 1 person recieves the testimony of the gospel of grace..Gods call was effectual to the chosen 1 elect..though the others heard the testimony of the gospel the call technically was not for them.. They only heard it as it was directed by the sovereign Spirit to that elect who was in there precense..

Thats what I believe many are called few are chosen means..because the preacher may audibly call many at the sound of his voice but thats not Gods purpose Gods purpose was to call the chosen one the elect..

So Gods call though to the elect did confirm the non elect in their unbelief because they believed not the record God has given of His son via the faithful proclamation to the gospel..which makes God a liar..

Ok Daryll! that was good. So why are you arguing with us?

[beloved57]

st nich says

Ok Daryll! that was good. So why are you arguing with us?

Not arguing with you but what i believe is different obviously to what some on the forum believe...

brandon:

All men everywhere are obligated to obey God. The Gospel command is given to everyone. However, only the elect are enabled to believe.

He and I dont agree

scott

Here's something you seem to have missed, sir.

God calls ALL MEN to obedience. Not just the elect.

I dont agree..

so st nic its not like I have not met with disagreement on this issue sir , surely you seen this..

Now if you and I agree thats good..do you still feel like we in agreement now lol..

[lionovjudah]

hf ask

This has to do with the gospel first coming to the jews , has nothing to do with God calling the non elect to repent..

As the call to savation went out to the chosen jews the election of grace in that nation , for there was a remnant Jesus went for :

matt 10:

But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

matt 15 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.


rom 11 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.


The non elect of that nation was never the object of Jesus christ bringing to repentance..

In fact he tells some of them..matt 23 33

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

You must not allow a seemingly obscure parable dictate or contradict the overall symmetry of scripture..

Jesus did not come to the Land of palestine to call the unregenrated , self righteous Jews to repentance..

matt 9

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

So do you believe in light of this that Jesus came to call the whole nation to repentance ? Yes or no..

Darryl: You are confusing the external call vs internal call of the Spirit. You started this thread SPECIFICALLY about the external call of the Gospel. God employs man to give the external call to all who are present. Therefore this whole thread is moot. IF you wanted to speal of the internal call as much as it pains me to agree with you, I would have to becasue Scripture speaks as such. Once you figure this out, you will stop the nonsense you speak of.