The 2008 Economic Crisis

[Robert R. Higby]

The government cannot inflate its way out of the coming depression by means of the Fed expanding the money supply. Sure, that approach is the cause of the present false recovery which will result in what is called (in economic jargon) stagflation. But this will wear off quickly. The Fed has already financed about 1/3 of the current new borrowing because other creditors (nations and individuals) are not willing to infinitely loan money to the U.S. govt.

We will soon get to the place where the Fed will have to issue credit for most of new borrowing. The govt. will hog so much of credit that there will be little left for the private sector. The result: a very long depression. If the govt. borrows at zero interest today, SOMEDAY interest will start to accumulate if there is ever to be an economic recovery. Because of the government's excessive need for infinite credit, there will be no recovery for the private sector until either the Federal Reserve system is abolished or the government stops borrowing.

[Brandan Kraft]

Because of the government's excessive need for infinite credit, there will be no recovery for the private sector until either the Federal Reserve system is abolished or the government stops borrowing.

Which will never happen. This nation is finished!

[doctr_of_grace]

Which will never happen. This nation is finished!

Very true.

[Whammer]

I think you all are correct about this nation in many ways.........so I thought in such a bleak outlook, some words of encouragement might also be found brighter in all our minds.......

Heb 12:28-28, (NASB), Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe;
and
Heb 13:14-16, (NASB)
For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.
Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.
And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

[The Hawker]

I think you all are correct about this nation in many ways.........so I thought in such a bleak outlook, some words of encouragement might also be found brighter in all our minds.......

Heb 12:28-28, (NASB), Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe;
and
Heb 13:14-16, (NASB)
For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come.
Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.
And do not neglect doing good and sharing, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

Thank you Bryan. We have a God who is steadfast and sure. His mercies are new every morning. Whatever happens, God is in complete control of ALL His creation. We belong to a Kingdom which no man can tamper with. It is a Kingdom which is holy and undefiled.

[doctr_of_grace]

Amen INDEED to the fact that GOD is in control of this mess and this country and the world and the universe

What a mighty God we have!

[Calvinator]

Which will never happen. This nation is finished!

Yep!

[Mickey]

There are many factors that have led to the destruction of the former U.S.A. One of course is the oligarchs, another is taxes, and yet another is law(there are many more). Everywhere we turn there is another law made about something and to no surprise it lacks the one thing that any sensible individual would expect...common sense! Of course most of us have come to expect a lack of common sense in everything our 3 branches conceive which is one of the reasons the former U.S.A. is dead.

The Jackboots are-a-comin'!!!!

[Robert R. Higby]

If I believed that the U.S. as a nation is absolutely and infallibly finished as a republic, I would certainly not attempt to reason with anyone about anything in the area of human government and what it SHOULD BE as opposed to a myriad of things that it currently IS. But that is my perspective.

Out of the ashes of depression something new always arises. But I believe that the notion of a coming one-world government is anti-scriptural, so that is the basis of our differences on this issue.

[Brandan Kraft]

If I believed that the U.S. as a nation is absolutely and infallibly finished as a republic, I would certainly not attempt to reason with anyone about anything in the area of human government and what it SHOULD BE as opposed to a myriad of things that it currently IS. But that is my perspective.

Out of the ashes of depression something new always arises. But I believe that the notion of a coming one-world government is anti-scriptural, so that is the basis of our differences on this issue.

It's possible that parts of this nation might survive in a different, yet free form - whereas others will come under totalitarian rule.

[rlhuckle]

The problem's solution, as I see it, is eliminating the "entitlement" notion which has been promulgated by the public schools and the liberal "intelligentsia" for the past two generations.

The children of America are being indoctrinated into a mindset where they believe they are "entitled" to free meals (assisted breakfast and lunch programs) free schooling (whether paid for by the state or their parents); free transportation; free (or low cost/assisted) housing; free-dom (without having to sacrifice or fight for it); free paycheck (everybody deserves to keep a job regardless); free buying power (everybody deserves a house and a lifestyle they can enjoy); free health care (everybody deserves good health and good teeth); and free retirement.

Who should foot the bill for all these "freedoms?" ---sombody else-- and the recent winners are: all those "nasty rich people" who make money off the poor (read: those hard working Americans who work long hours, educated themselves, invested wisely, became entreprenuers, started companies, provided jobs and made this country the great republic it is/was.

The re-education of America must begin with the local school boards--if it is not too late already....

[GraceAmbassador]

There are many factors that have led to the destruction of the former U.S.A. One of course is the oligarchs, another is taxes, and yet another is law(there are many more). Everywhere we turn there is another law made about something and to no surprise it lacks the one thing that any sensible individual would expect...common sense! Of course most of us have come to expect a lack of common sense in everything our 3 branches conceive which is one of the reasons the former U.S.A. is dead.

The Jackboots are-a-comin'!!!!

Allow me to add the rise of the megalomaniacs, power hungry, domination seekers on the Roman Catholic Church. The rise of Roman Catholicism is often contemporaneous to the fall of pure capitalism not for the good of a nation, but to its demise as a free society. Whereas the RCC fights and struggles in the moral issues (primarily to seek imposition and dominance of their beliefs and submission to the Pope), they break the backbone of the economical well being of a society to use the same argument Judas used when the woman broke an alabaster vessel and washed Jesus' feet: "Give it to the poor". We know what is spoken about Judas when he made this argument: "...because he had the purse..."

Since Jesus' day, the argument against free enterprise, and free utilization of one's possessions, which were acquired with honest and hard work, there will always be those who will impose: "no, you can't be free to use what you acquired with hard work; it belongs to the poor." The motivation is the same: POWER.

Milt

[The Hawker]

Allow me to add the rise of the megalomaniacs, power hungry, domination seekers on the Roman Catholic Church. The rise of Roman Catholicism is often contemporaneous to the fall of pure capitalism not for the good of a nation, but to its demise as a free society. Whereas the RCC fights and struggles in the moral issues (primarily to seek imposition and dominance of their beliefs and submission to the Pope), they break the backbone of the economical well being of a society to use the same argument Judas used when the woman broke an alabaster vessel and washed Jesus' feet: "Give it to the poor". We know what is spoken about Judas when he made this argument: "...because he had the purse..."

Since Jesus' day, the argument against free enterprise, and free utilization of one's possessions, which were acquired with honest and hard work, there will always be those who will impose: "no, you can't be free to use what you acquired with hard work; it belongs to the poor." The motivation is the same: POWER.

Milt

As a lifelong anti-socialist, I agree totally with your post.

What they call fairness is injustice.

When a lazy lump won't get out and go to work, they shouldn't eat. This isn't my idea but God's.

Why should hard working people who actually graft for a living pay for someone who won't even get out of bed in the morning.

They talk about fairness. Their "fairness" is that everybody should be the same. If everyone who was able went to work, that would be fair, but we know that this is not the case.

Yes socialism is good for those at the top of the chain, and for lazy lumps. For just people who go to work, you pay through the nose in taxes, if you earn a certain level.

[Mickey]

I totally agree with you Milt! See my postack at post #142:

It's an odd pattern but I see the U.S. government on the path to unity with the RCC (at least their economic views). I'm not an expert on all of the economic views of the RCC; but if the RCC has adopted Aquinas' economic views then we are pretty darn close.

Then of course there is the 'Evangelical church' and they are on the same path.

Makes you think.

"From each according to his ability to each according to his need." Interesting how similar Marx and Aquinas are on this!

[Robert R. Higby]

From each according to his ability to each according to his need. I find it interesting that this is a Pauline concept! But it applies only to the people of God, not to the world in general and certainly not to human governments. Paul was very clear on the meaning of 'need' in the EKKLESIA; it is spelled out for us in his rules on widows who should be eligible for distribution. Very few in this day and age would be eligible for additional financial aid from fellow believers, simply because most widows receive very liberal help from the government.

The backdrop of 'need' in the NT is a situation where those in the EKKLESIA handicapped or aged could not get any relief from the government of that age, which is completely different from where we are at today.

As Roger, Mike, Milt, Kevin, Brandan, and John have said; socialism is a curse beyond imagination to the society of today. It is modeled after the economic views of the Roman Catholic church ala Thomas Aquinas--and will lead any nation to absolute and unrecoverable ruin.

[GraceAmbassador]

From each according to his ability to each according to his need. I find it interesting that this is a Pauline concept! But it applies only to the people of God, not to the world in general and certainly not to human governments. Paul was very clear on the meaning of 'need' in the EKKLESIA; it is spelled out for us in his rules on widows who should be eligible for distribution. Very few in this day and age would be eligible for additional financial aid from fellow believers, simply because most widows receive very liberal help from the government.

The backdrop of 'need' in the NT is a situation where those in the EKKLESIA handicapped or aged could not get any relief from the government of that age, which is completely different from where we are at today.

As Roger, Mike, Milt, Kevin, Brandan, and John have said; socialism is a curse beyond imagination to the society of today. It is modeled after the economic views of the Roman Catholic church ala Thomas Aquinas--and will lead any nation to absolute and unrecoverable ruin.

Great point!

We all heard of 666 as being an attempt of the devil to counterfeit "7" which is "God's perfect number". I know that this is just something that we can surmise or infer in our pursuit of making a point of biblical numerology.
However, we do know that Paul teaches that the devil can imitate poorly, but enough to deceive, some gullible people. Keep in mind the text "...angel of light..."

As such, it is also possible to infer that SOCIALISM, or its mean offspring, COMMUNISM, is indeed the most devilish counterfeit of what Paul, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, revealed to the EKKLESIA! I think it is and it fits perfectly his "devices" of which Paul tells us not to be ignorant.

I was driving to Jacksonville FL last night listening to a station that only played old Hymns in a congregational setting and invited people to sing along. One of the hymns was "A mighty fortress is our God". I accepted the invitation and used the lonely useless time of driving in a dark night to sing songs that speak about our victory.

One of the verses of this battle hymn says: "His power and craft are great and armed with cruel hate" - "On earth is none his equal".

Doubtless! But the hymn also says: His rage we can endure; for, lo, his doom is sure... one little word shall fell him! (Hallelujah!)

I am one to ascribe every single situation here on earth to a spiritual reason. I do believe that the socialism we see now in America IS a spiritual warfare! A battle that will be overcome only with the full participation of Godly warriors who will use the natural law, such as the right to vote, and above all, SUPERNATURAL LAWS, above ALL EARTHLY POWERS! That is the only hope of America!

The weapons of this warfare are not carnal! But faint not! They may not be carnal and dependent upon the skills of the sharp shooters with their high precision riffles or any bomb that men can manufacture! BUT THEY ARE MIGHTY! Even mightier than anything men can devise!

That word, the little word, from probably a "low rank" angel, will defeat the counterfeiter! The EKKLESIA will reign triumphantly! Socialism will be defeated NOT BY CAPITALISM! The power to defeat SOCIALISM as a counterfeit is the REAL THING: CHRISTIANITY!

There is nothing that can defeat God's system! Not even the master counterfeiter can accomplish the demise of what God planned for men! He will win the battle!

This victory may be accomplished simply by the EKKLESIA becoming a parallel system where men do practice real CHRISTIANITY and the preach the REAL GOSPEL God then, will raise enough of His elect to show that His system works out perfectly and that we don't need any devilish counterfeit designed by men led by the devil to imposed it!

Let me finish with the end verse of A Mighty Fortress is our God:
"THAT WORD ABOVE ALL EARTHLY POWERS
NO THANKS TO THEM, ABIDETH
THE GIFTS AND THE SPIRIT ARE OURS
THROUGH HIM WHO WITH US SIDETH
LET GOOD AND KINDRED GO
THIS MORTAL LIFE ALSO
OUR BODY THEY MAY KILL
GOD'S TRUTH ABIDETH STILL
HIS KINGDOM IS FOREVER!

Amen!

Who said I would not have preached today, this Sunday, April 5 2009?

Milt

[Saint Nicholas]

Milt, Robert, Mickey, Kevin, and Roger made excellent points.

The whole scheme of Socialism (Facism, Communism, Marxism, Recontructionism, Roman Catholicism, Federal Vision, etc.) whether Political or Ecclesiastical, is at the root evil and satanic. For it empowers the government and clergy to extort (tax/tithe) the fruits of one's labor under duress and or deception. This fruit (tangible or intangible assets) is given to men to redistribute as they see fit for their own gain and agenda.

They see themselves as the Robin Hoods of society to correct the evils of this world. However they themselves are the very enemies of freedom of conscience, and freedoms in general.

These no-goods are lazy and do not produce anything that is essential for the sustenance of life.

They have for centuries duped men into believing they and their sytems are essential for one's life and existence.

Thank God/Christ we have been given eyes to see through this massive delusion that God has sent upon mankind to utterly destroy them who will be forever without hope. Thier trust will remain in their clergy/minister and politicians to save them from the wrath to come.

Nicholas

[wildboar]

Socialism is certainly an evil. But I think some make the mistake of thinking that since socialism is satanic, therefore capitalism must be endorsed by God. In truth, capitalism exalts the abstract market as god. The reason that socialism happens is in reaction to capitalist systems in which men are not paid a high enough wage to support their families. We went through various times in American history where workers were not treated fairly and became little more than slaves of the owners of the means of production. And so socialist answers like unions arose and we arrived in the state that we are today. Guys like Limbaugh are far too optimistic when it comes to the idea that if the owners of the means of production become wealthy they will spread the wealth to the workers--they talk as if original did not exist. Free market capitalism is based on a theology of glory. Distributists like Chesterton were absolutely right (as he was right on a number of other things) when he wrote that so-called triumph of capitalism would really only lead to the blending of socialism and capitalism with the worst of both systems. The only real way out is through distributist, family-centered economies. Simply deregulating isn't going to create the utopia that some think it will.

[Robert R. Higby]

If distributionism is mandated by the government it is doomed to be an abortion like everything else the government has mandated in economics. If it is the product of the voluntary private use of wealth, then it has promise.

The role of the government in legitimate capitalism is to prevent wealthy individuals and corporations from controlling the means of production (i.e., monopolization) in such a manner that it prevents a large and prosperous middle class from thriving. NOT to control the means of production itself.

With the Federal Reserve system and a handful of large corporations controlling the actions of the government, we are in more danger of monopolization of wealth today than ever before. Fascism is quickly becoming our fate.

[wildboar]

If distributionism is mandated by the government it is doomed to be an abortion like everything else the government has mandated in economics. If it is the product of the voluntary private use of wealth, then it has promise.

The role of the government in legitimate capitalism is to prevent wealthy individuals and corporations from controlling the means of production (i.e., monopolization) in such a manner that it prevents a large and prosperous middle class from thriving. NOT to control the means of production itself.

With the Federal Reserve system and a handful of large corporations controlling the actions of the government, we are in more danger of monopolization of wealth today than ever before. Fascism is quickly becoming our fate.

I don't think that some sort of absolute distributism can be mandated by the federal government but it can encourage distributism through its laws and encourage the distribution of the means of production. Distributism does not teach that the government should control the means of production--that's socialism. In the past U.S. government and other governments have had laws that encourage distributism. Current equal wage laws are opposed to distributism and destroy the family.