I just found out I'm a hyper-dispensationalist!

[Calvinator]

I'm being slandered.

Most of us, on this forum, know that all things are of God. You can, Lord willing, look at this, the way King David looked at this situation that he was in.

2Sa 16:9 Then said Abishai the son of Zeruiah unto the king, Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? let me go over, I pray thee, and take off his head.
2Sa 16:10 And the king said, What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zeruiah? so let him curse, because the LORD hath said unto him, Curse David. Who shall then say, Wherefore hast thou done so?
2Sa 16:11 And David said to Abishai, and to all his servants, Behold, my son, which came forth of my bowels, seeketh my life: how much more now may this Benjamite do it? let him alone, and let him curse; for the LORD hath bidden him.
2Sa 16:12 It may be that the LORD will look on mine affliction, and that the LORD will requite me good for his cursing this day.
2Sa 16:13 And as David and his men went by the way, Shimei went along on the hill's side over against him, and cursed as he went, and threw stones at him, and cast dust.

[Calvinator]

I am glad that the "James exposed" thread got posted there, that way others will have the truth of the matter before them to consider rather a few of Monte's lies.

Amen! negative attention is still attention. May the Lord use it to His glory.

[Calvinator]

I'm a hairy tick, huh? Ooooohh scary word there! I'm trembling in my boots!

hairy tick...

[Calvinator]

James contradicts Jesus and Paul, but the red bug will have none of that.

Some of these people that claim that they believe in FAITH ALONE in CHRIST ALONE, but except the book of James as inspired Scripture, would call us Arminian heretics, if we read James 2:16-26 and they did not recognized it as scripture.

What good is there in your saying to them, "God bless you! Keep warm and eat well!"---if you don't give them the necessities of life? So it is with faith: if it is alone and includes no actions, then it is dead. But someone will say, "One person has faith, another has actions." My answer is, "Show me how anyone can have faith without actions. I will show you my faith by my actions." Do you believe that there is only one God? Good! The demons also believe---and tremble with fear. You fool! Do you want to be shown that faith without actions is useless? How was our ancestor Abraham put right with God? It was through his actions, when he offered his son Isaac on the altar. Can't you see? His faith and his actions worked together; his faith was made perfect through his actions. And the scripture came true that said, "Abraham believed God, and because of his faith God accepted him as righteous." And so Abraham was called God's friend. You see, then, that it is by our actions that we are put right with God, and not by our faith alone. It was the same with the prostitute Rahab. She was put right with God through her actions, by welcoming the Israelite spies and helping them to escape by a different road. So then, as the body without the spirit is dead, also faith without actions is dead.

This semi-Plagianism, synergistic, gospel of works statement was brought to you by James.

[MCoving]

Hey Brandan if your a heretic I wonder if I'd be for believing you're brethren in the Lord! hehe Does this remind you of anything? It does me... hint name has to do with that fuzzy stuff on the floor you walk on. lol. It's totally doctrinal regeneration. They claim that if you dont believe in their doctrine that all 66 books of this Bible we have today is the Word of God infalliable, inspired, and innerrant than you are not a believer. That irritates me to no ends. It doesn't sit right with me. We are saved by the blood of Jesus, his atoning work. It has nothing to do with us. If one believes the Gospel message then they are His children. No matter where their other doctrinal beliefs lie... we are all growing and the Lord reveals diff. Truths to diff. people at times. So why base it on what doctrinal truth someone knows? Its based on Christ's atoning blood alone. It gets irritating people judging like that. but not so much that as their lies. Then of course they so call, Monty and Chris... claims that there are no lies. Ya right! Their proof being something said in 2005 on some thread.. I dont know for sure I have stopped reading what people right on testallthings... I have no desire too. Its pathetic, and they just wanna take cheap stabs cant handle that. God's family should be loving to each other.. and it makes me so upset.

[Robert R. Higby]

WB: I never said it was essentially the same. I merely pointed out a point of contact. I have not made the blanket statements made by others on this board saying people are Platonists or whatever else. I never said you were in fact a hyper-dispensationalist or a Camping-ite. I merely pointed to a common interpretive method. The fact that I point to points of contact between p-net and Marcion or Pelagius or Harold Camping simply means I am making an observation. Both p-net and these other people have their own agendas and they would no doubt think you are just as nutty as you think they are. But I say what I mean and mean what I say. Don't read too much into what I say.

I can't agree that 'a common interpretive method' and 'essentially the same' are two different things. That is where this explanation doesn't work for me. There is only a common interpretive method if it leads to the same basic set of substantial beliefs; a method can only be completely idendified by its fruits.

A 'point of contact' might be identified between any two human beings. But in and of itself such a lone proposition doesn't mean anything. Unless there is substantial agreement in the basic beliefs of two different persons or confessional entitites, comparing them leads to a very distorted view of what one or the other teaches.

Can you provide examples of where God tempts the reprobate to sin?

And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil? And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. I Ki. 22:18-23

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thess. 2:11,12

In all cases where God is stated to harden hearts, this is the equivalent of tempting the wicked to sin because the enticements of evil desire are multiplied and strengthened.

On the flip side,

If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Deut 13:1-3

The false prophet is sent by God to prove His people.

Job 42:11

Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

The point: anything that Satan performs as an immediate agent is brought by God, as in the lying demons that God sent in the passage above. Hence we pray to the Lord "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." If the full sovereignty of God is believed, let no man say when he is tempted, I am not tempted of God!

[wildboar]

I can't agree that 'a common interpretive method' and 'essentially the same' are two different things. That is where this explanation doesn't work for me. There is only a common interpretive method if it leads to the same basic set of substantial beliefs; a method can only be completely idendified by its fruits.

A 'point of contact' might be identified between any two human beings. But in and of itself such a lone proposition doesn't mean anything. Unless there is substantial agreement in the basic beliefs of two different persons or confessional entitites, comparing them leads to a very distorted view of what one or the other teaches.

I was clear as to what I meant by the comparisons. I said that in the instance of tree/fruit analogy Marcion took the passage out of context to suit his own agenda and so did you. I never said you had the same agenda. I said that Camping chopped up sections of time and so do you. Pelagius denied the doctrine of original sin and so do you. I merely stated the obvious. You can't be a full blown Campingite, Marcionite, and Pelagian simultaneously and I never said you were one of these things.

Can you provide examples of where God tempts the reprobate to sin?

And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil? And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. I Ki. 22:18-23

And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thess. 2:11,12

In all cases where God is stated to harden hearts, this is the equivalent of tempting the wicked to sin because the enticements of evil desire are multiplied and strengthened.

God does not directly do the tempting here. This passage is also in complete harmony with James. God finds a lying spirit, a spirit of prophecy that is under the influence of the Devil. The Devil of course himself can only do what God allows as we learn from Job. God then uses these evil works of this lying spirit to accomplish His good.

Hardening is not the same as tempting. Hardening involves a strengthening of an already stubborn and sinful will.

[wildboar]

Rober Higby:

It is somewhat interesting that one of the Auburn Avenue folks (Steve Schlissel) gives basically the same explanation as you do of the 1 Kings passage. No, I'm not accusing you of being part of the FV, don't worry. http://www.messiahnyc.org/ArticlesDetail.asp?id=330

[Robert R. Higby]

What all this comes down to is whether God purposes all things causatively (including evil) or merely purposes to permit certain evils. So we are ultimately back to that whole debate.

Btw, I have never proposed that God tempts in the sense of shouting DO IT in someone's mind with His own voice. But even though the immediate agent in temptation is either demonic forces, human agents, or one's own sinful impulses, the ultimate cause of all such temptations is God and He wants them to happen or they would not.

[Judith]

Philippians 1:28-29, "And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, AND THAT OF GOD. For unto you IT IS GIVEN in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake".

Truth is not loved by the "many".

One of my favorite verses is found in the book of James:

3:17-18, "But the wisdom that is FROM ABOVE is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness IS SOWN in peace of them that make peace."

Yes, truth is a treasure more precious than silver or gold and PURE gold doesn't rust; James 5:3, "...and the RUST of them shall be a witness against you". The lessons taught in James are much deeper than the fleshly eye can behold.

[Robert R. Higby]

Some verses teaching correct doctrine do not make a book canonical, otherwise we would have many thousands of writings in the Bible!