False Prophets

[MCoving]

So I've heard many people talk about false prophets and sheep in wolves clothing. What I was wondering is how do we know if someone is a false prophet? I think this is a label that is put on people way too much. Any ideas? I'll write more later.. gotta go rest...

Mary

[Brandan Kraft]

So I've heard many people talk about false prophets and sheep in wolves clothing. What I was wondering is how do we know if someone is a false prophet? I think this is a label that is put on people way too much. Any ideas? I'll write more later.. gotta go rest...

Mary

The standard for ALL things is the Gospel. We must judge all things by the Gospel of Grace. By the Gospel of Justification by Christ Alone and by Faith Alone. We MUST measure a thing by the Gospel whether it be a book, a preacher's message, or a general principle if we wish to be truthful to the Gospel.

How do we know if a person is a wolf? Listen to his message. Does he say something that is contradictory to the Gospel? That might be your first hint.

[Highlyfavored]

The standard for ALL things is the Gospel. We must judge all things by the Gospel of Grace. By the Gospel of Justification by Christ Alone and by Faith Alone. We MUST measure a thing by the Gospel whether it be a book, a preacher's message, or a general principle if we wish to be truthful to the Gospel.

How do we know if a person is a wolf? Listen to his message. Does he say something that is contradictory to the Gospel? That might be your first hint.

Paul said:

Gal 1:6, (NASB)
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

Obviously there are different gospels, false ones and the true one.
All those who have deserted the true one are false sheep.

Do they give you any conditions or say that you have to accept a certain book maybe called something like... well I don't know maybe something like JAMES!!!?

Then they are a red neck er I mean a false gospel preacher, or maybe they are just wearing a mask and really it's SATAN!!!.

[MCoving]

Wow thanks guys! Yeah I agree that we judge by the Gospel alone, whether that is a person or a book, etc. The Gospel is the saving work of Christ, atoning for the sins of His people alone.. its about Gods sovereignty and His gift of life to us. He does His works in us to believe and repent. Its about Christ and what HE has done.

its really simple.. and I think if one confesses and stands by the Truth of the Gospel then they are a believer, no matter what else they believe. No matter if they think James is inspired or not. Whether they fully understand eternal justification or not.. or whether they fully understand God being the cause of sin. Or any other doctrinal position.

I think when people judge others to be false prophets or not by more than just the Gospel they get into works judgement... they get into doctrinal regeneration. Get into what humans believe and do rather than what Christ has done on the cross for His sheep.

It is sad... I thought of this because of the people who have called those who say James is not inspired to be heretics and false prophets. that I must get out from under them... hehe as if I am under Brandan, Bob or Greg?! lol

Thanks. For me tho Greg even those who give conditions or say one must accept the book of James are my brethren as well. As long as they know the Gospel message and live by it.. not just that they can recite it. IE Chris on testallthings is my brethren. IE Brandan on here is my brethren. Even tho there are differences in doctrines over the book of James. I know others who still struggle to understand EJ and yet they know Gods gospel they understand a whole lot of Gods sovereignty... this they still haven't fully grasped.. yet they are my brethren. I think in time they will... I think in time God will reveal alot to people.

Some women I've noticed also dont get into theology much, so they don't even know of some of these terms.. they only know of the Gospel, and Gods sovereignty... and yet thats enough for me to call them brethren.

I just dont get why some people go farther and say one must confess to these doctrinal truths to be a brethren. Or one must have these certain amount of fruits in their lives to be a brethren. Etc....

[Robert R. Higby]

Then they are a red neck er I mean a false gospel preacher, or maybe they are just wearing a mask and really it's SATAN!!!.

Is this why, if you gaze ever so closely, you notice that some religious and political celebrities have the devil in their eyes? A mask cannot conceal the eyes!

[Brandan Kraft]

Here is a false prophet that I know - I met him here in rural missouri as he was close friends with our old church that Bob and I both attended (spoke there - you weren't there Bob). Notice how subtle his message is - and how good his presentation is. But every message of his is JUST LIKE THIS ONE. His focus is not the Gospel - it's WORKS!

[MCoving]

Hey all in defense of Chris if this is who you are reffering to when say "they maybe just wearing a mask or Satan" I don't see that. This is exactly what I've been trying to tell peopel. the internet is not a good form of communication, and once again people have been misunderstood.

Chris does want Monty to respond and prove points in his video. And when he said Amen to the video he was just thinking of James and didn't catch the lies that were said. So I think he kind of realizes there may be lies in there, and wants them exposed. Second he is working on a paper to refute the idea that the book of James not being inspired is wrong, and a heretical idea. I dont think he meant any intention of just calling you guys names. He just read Revelations that verse in there and felt it was enough to cal you heretics. I disagree but that was his thinking....

So as I've defended Brandan against Chris and people on his site.. so will Idefend Chris on here... I believe both you two are brethren in the Lord. because and only because you know the Gospel! Not all this other lil stuff... one person saying the other is a heretic and the other saying he is.. or worse the devil... just because of this James issue.

I swear sometimes I wish this doctrinal issue never existed! Ifeel it has dividied Gods family and its not a good thing. I'll stand in the middle and that is where I['ll be forever. So please try to play nice people!

[Brandan Kraft]

Any person who makes affirmation of a book (like James) a requirement for fellowship is indeed a false prophet because he has created another gospel. To make the book of James the sole issue for condemning someone is in my opinion legalistic and thus ANTI-Gospel. It makes the bible an idol. It is carpenterism - just a different form.

[Whammer]

I think another thing is the clear misunderstanding of what "sola scriptura" in fact means. We here at this forum in particular hold to the truth of that saying......we are not "sola biblia (prot bible, RC bible, GO bible, Eth. bible, mormon bible)"
However we will bear the reproach with the rest of our brethren who hold to "sola scriptura" and be called the heretics!
Our problem with others is that they are demanding we accept their canon as scripture.....or have none of it as scripture. We in good conscience, in the presence of Christ, will not be followers of these men, especially those that are called "giants of faith".......what faith? who made them giants?
In this particular case we are dealing with men who have been either willing to/or give strength to those who would physically kill or torture others for not obeying their commands.
In this case the scripture fits......Luke 16:15
In particular "For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God."

[Brandan Kraft]

More from a false prophet...
YouTube - Paul Washer- Deeply caring or too intense?

[Brandan Kraft]

Notice in this sermon HOW deceptive false teachers can be? If not - let's discuss!
YouTube - Paul Washer - Shocking Message (full length)

[MCoving]

Any person who makes affirmation of a book (like James) a requirement for fellowship is indeed a false prophet because he has created another gospel. To make the book of James the sole issue for condemning someone is in my opinion legalistic and thus ANTI-Gospel. It makes the bible an idol. It is carpenterism - just a different form.

Hmm you make a good point, and I dont care what Chris and his fellow followers... or should I say Monty's followers say about my post here. You are right.. Fellowship with others is over the Gospel alone, not all these requirements. That verse in Revelations isn't being interpreted right. And as I said who knows that if some man didn't add to Gods Word! So they say that God wouldn't ever allow the BIble to be tainted or added to.. that He would preserve it. How does one know? Couldn't he not preserve it too?

I wouldn't go yet so far as to say these people are not brethren. I still stand in the middle that they are brethren because of the Gospel. But I do not agree with what they are doing.

And I was so upset to hear that Monty called me a cheerleader of pnet's leaders!!! WHAT?! I don't follow you guys, I never have like that. I am an independent thinker and I follow Christ. I'm Christs cheerleader. Made me so mad.. and the fact that people agree with him! Im not stupid.. I can think for myself. Very very irritating.. I am so done with that site. I tried.. but they made it so much bigger than it was. I just merely wanted Monty to retract the statements that were false about Brandan. I wanted people to know the Truth. And more than anything wanted people in Gods family to get along.. I'm so tired of this doctrinal regeneration stuff!

That one must believe these doctrines to be a brethren. Its merely the Gospel message.. so what if one is a babe and has yet to understand EJ, or whatever other doctrines.. so what? They are still brethren for their profession of the Gospel...

I wish I made sense to people but I fear I dont.. some say I should never have gotten involved but I am too much a people person.. too much wanting Gods family to live in unity that I couldn't just stay back. I wanted to reconcile things.. but some people wouldn't have it.. most on testallthings like monty etc. They just want to call people here heretics. I dont see much else.

Mary

[Ugly_Gaunt_Cow]

I think Monty has received far too much attention already. Time will pass, and yet another internet nutjob will fade into the background of life.

People like this come and go all the time...

[Brandan Kraft]

I think Monty has received far too much attention already. Time will pass, and yet another internet nutjob will fade into the background of life.

People like this come and go all the time...

Agreed!

[MCoving]

true... and the one good thing testallthings is private.. so only the people there will read it.. they can talk all the want together... about the lies and such. Not like anyone is going to listen and change their minds. Not me thats for sure! I'll have nothing to do with that site anymore... so they really are just talkin to a brick wall. And Monty's video.. who really is going to care about that. Any smart human wouldn't base their opinion of someone on a video.. only fools do that.

[Highlyfavored]

Hey all in defense of Chris if this is who you are reffering to when say "they maybe just wearing a mask or Satan" I don't see that.

Mary, my remarks were not directed at Chris I was being funny and was actually thinking of Jeff Foxworthy and the church lady on saturday night live.

[Eileen]

And I was so upset to hear that Monty called me a cheerleader of pnet's leaders!!! WHAT?! I don't follow you guys, I never have like that. I am an independent thinker and I follow Christ. I'm Christs cheerleader. Made me so mad.. and the fact that people agree with him! Im not stupid.. I can think for myself. Very very irritating.. I am so done with that site. I tried.. but they made it so much bigger than it was. I just merely wanted Monty to retract the statements that were false about Brandan. I wanted people to know the Truth. And more than anything wanted people in Gods family to get along.. I'm so tired of this doctrinal regeneration stuff!


Mary

Although we are not to ‘follow’ anyone but Christ, it is certainly not wrong to be very thankful and appreciative of those who exalt Him in the truth, thankful for those who have studied the scriptures and are not afraid to take a stand for what they believe. HE is after all the Way, the Truth and the Life. Isn’t that why we are here, we find truth here? The Lord led me here to find the truth and often He uses learned men in one fashion or another to teach me. That doesn’t bother me, I’m thrilled to have ears to hear.

Don’t let their name calling discourage you from doing exactly what you are doing, looking to Him for all things. The Lord will bring unity in His time, perhaps two at a time, perhaps tomorrow. Nothing is impossible with Him, amen?

Eileen~

[MCoving]

Although we are not to ‘follow’ anyone but Christ, it is certainly not wrong to be very thankful and appreciative of those who exalt Him in the truth, thankful for those who have studied the scriptures and are not afraid to take a stand for what they believe. HE is after all the Way, the Truth and the Life. Isn’t that why we are here, we find truth here? The Lord led me here to find the truth and often He uses learned men in one fashion or another to teach me. That doesn’t bother me, I’m thrilled to have ears to hear.

Don’t let their name calling discourage you from doing exactly what you are doing, looking to Him for all things. The Lord will bring unity in His time, perhaps two at a time, perhaps tomorrow. Nothing is impossible with Him, amen?

Eileen~

AMEN! Very well said Eileen. Hope you are doing well.. and I have been so blessed by the people on this forum. I have friendships with many of you outside the forum, this is a place of theological discussion. Yet I have loved the new features of the blog, pictures, comments and such because I can connect even more with ya all. hehe ya all. Im from the south didnta know that?! lol

And thanks Greg for clarifying... no worries here.. I dont care to talk with Chris anymore, I was just trying to reconcile things.. but I'll leave that to the Lord now, I have no time or really energy left for it!

Mary

[Merry and Joyful]

Notice in this sermon HOW deceptive false teachers can be? If not - let's discuss!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8&feature=related

Some of Washer's sermons have become popular, for example, his hour-long message to a group of kids at some baptist convention. I once listened to the whole thing and I would agree it was largely works focused. I think one reason for his popularity is his ability to speak well, and the intense emotional factor which is present in the delivery of his messages. Sometimes he yells, sometimes he sounds like he's on the point of tears as if he's the most humble and loving man on earth. I've been on another forum commprised of many Arminians and Calvinists and most appear to love him. "What power!", they say. "What a call to responsibility!", they say. "What a moving message!", they might add. But I don't agree with this man's theological positions and even I was getting nervous listening to him...lol...because who wouldn't be scared with some guy yelling in your face? I think he misrepresents the idea of "narrow path". I've always thought of narrow as Christ alone, so narrow that salvation only depends on God's having mercy on you and has nothing to do with us...the broad way being the way of self-righteousness (i.e. no righteousness) apart from Christ...

[MCoving]

Hey Stacey! Nice to see ya posting on here. I'll email ya soon..

wow this guy Washer is a character! He don't know the true Gospel.. that it isn't about works. Theres faith and then he says you must do what is right and holy, as if your lifestyle is what makes you a Christian. What about what Christ did on the cross? Wheres the gospel central life?! Thats what I like about that CJ Mahanney book. It's about the Gospel.. faith alone.. NOTHING else. He is concerned more about holiness and preaching the Gospel to the nations. Sounds like the emergent church these days... what a movement there! I dont have anything against speaking Gods Truth sharing the Gospel.. but they make it more into a requirement almost to be saved is thus you must be missional.

though good question.. How do you know you are saved? Well he didn't say it was because of what you belief. But isnt that part of it? He says you know because of your style of life.. because of your good works, that you step away from being disobedient. So You can know you are saved by your good works?! That you wont dress like the world, you dont act like the world, etc. Thats how you know you are saved. WOW!

That is total heresy! How sad!! This is why so many teens get messed up. They try to live up to this, and when they fall... when they sin, maybe they got caught up in trying drugs once by peer pressure.. or gotten drunk.. well then they start to question whether they are saved.. This is ridiculus! I hate this.. its not about our good works.. what we do or dont do.. its about what Christ has done! And we can be assured of life, of eternity, a child of God because of what Christ has done.. and that God opened our eyes and we see!!

"Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now am found was blind but now I see" Christ found His lost sheep brought it into the fold.. It is Jesus who saves alone. Nothing about us....