Originally Posted by
MCoving
Hey. So I was reading something in another thread and a question came to my mind.
When does the Holy Spirit come to live within the brethren?
Answer: Ephesians 1:13,14
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
As we know, these verses cannot be separated from verses 11 and 12 of Ephesians 1, which say:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
It is easy to read the wrong thing in verses 13 and 14, where the bible says " In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth". This is true, but must be interpreted in line with other verses which speak of Gods' predetermined will, ie Ephesians 1:4,5,9,11. I don't believe that there is a difference between the group that is being referred to in the first twelve verses and the group referred to in verse 13. You can end up falling into the Arminian trap otherwise. The Father draws all His children to Himself through Jesus Christ.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.(John 6:44)
So that means that all of Gods' children are predestined to be His. No distinction!
Are we born with the Spirit or is it at the time of confession?
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:8)
I am not sure if there is really an answer (in terms of a direct verse in the bible) to your question, Mary, suffice to say that from eternity past, present and future, we have eternal security, which means for eternity we are saved HALLELUJAH!!!!!
Also, whats the difference between Holy Spirit and Christ in us, and us in Christ?
In my opinion (for what it is worth), NONE!
Christ is in us by the power of the Holy Spirit, and we are in Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. (1John 4:4)
The relationship is based on the fact that God first loved us. God drew us by His power to love Him, by abiding in Him by His power. What a wonderful relationship!!
And is it true the the Holy Spirit wars against our fleshly self? We have this sinful nature, and then there's the Holy Spirit which is good, and well .. haha ... holy. So is not the main battle the Spirit against our Flesh, and living out our days learning how to be more in the Spirit than Flesh? To do more good than fleshly sinful things.
When we take our focus off of Christ and gratify our own desires, because of our body of iniquity, the war intensifies, but the Lord gives us the means to escape. For example:
38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak. (Mark 14:38)
Another scripture to use in answer to your question is when Jesus was in the wilderness, and the devil was tempting Him. Jesus used the Word to quench the firey darts of the devil ie:
1 Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him. (Matthew 4:1-11)
The Word of God (The Bible) is the Sword of the Spirit, and is the weopon we use to fight all the wiles or devices of the devil.
Just some thoughts.. and how much power do we have in the Spirit? Obviously we dont have like the ability to heal people in the Spirit, or prophesize, speak in tongues, etc. All those things ended with the disciples of Jesus right?
The following verse will hopefully answer your question:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
Thanks... just some thoughts I've yet to clarify for myself. I always thought the Holy Spirit came in our lives at confession, just curious if that is true with the doctrines of predestinarian/high grace.
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