Atheist converted by Power of God

[Andrew]

For years Dr Flores was professor of pedagogy in the Department of Philosophy of the Central University in Quito, Equador. He had written five textbooks in his field of learning theory, plus over two hundred journal articles. His studies took him to Europe, Egypt and the Soviet Union.

He was also well known as the author of a booklet on how to raise the ideal atheist family. In the booklet he used his wife and four children as the model godless family. Though he was not a member of the Communist Party, he did hold the position of intellectual leader of the campus Marxist movement. He took particular delight in ridiculing the faith of anyone who might believe in God - Catholic or evangelical Protestant.

In May of 1982, the Puerto Rican Pentecostal evangelist Yeye Avila held an evangelistic campaign in Quito's bull ring. Flores' wife and his oldest daughter, Gabriela, were invited and decided to attend one of the meetings. Both women were physically healed and as a result became Christians. Gabriela also spoke in tongues. The younger children also became Christians during the campaign - despite their atheistic training.

Shortly after his wife and four daughters' conversions, Dr Flores arrived home from the university to find his family on their knees, praying for his salvation. When Gabriela saw her father enter the room she said, "Daddy, I'm going to prove to you once and for all that there is a God and that Jesus Christ is alive today. I'm going to sing for you in a language I've never learned."

Gabriela then proceeded to sing as the Holy Spirit gave her words. She sang in Russian, then German, then Italian, then French, and finally in English. It was music that exalted the Lord. It was sung to a well-known tune, "La Tabacundena", written by the professor some years before. Dr Flores was familiar with each language, and he knew that Gabriela did not know them. The experience left him shaken.

He did not sleep that night. The next morning he cancelled all of his classes and locked himself inside his office, where he trembled because of the presence of a Power he was unable to deal with.

That evening he returned home to find his family praying for him. Gabriela again approached him, this time laying hands on him and prophesying over him with great authority.

The Holy Spirit even revealed to Gabriela specific hidden sins in his life. The professor had had enough. He dropped to his knees, praying, "Lord, I am a fool", and offering his life to God.

At that time, Dr Flores recalls, God picked him up off the floor and shook him like a doll, three times. In the process he was healed of a displaced fifth lumbar vertebra, haemorrhoids, and numerous allergies. He also spoke in tongues.

Dr Flores' conversion stuck. On 14 March 1989 he was ordained. Today he is the pastor of Centro Cristiano Vida Abundante (Abundant Life Christian Centre), where he leads a rapidly growing flock of over 1,100. The congregation has quadrupled under his leadership. Dr Flores also oversees an outreach ministry to 1,500 Quichua Indians living in remote districts of Equador.

Extracted from Power Evangelism, John Wimber with Kevin Springer

[Corbin]

Wow, that story is almost a little hard to believe...

The lord divinely intervenes not once, but twice!

First, he somehow commands Dr Flores's daughter to sign to him in 3 languages the girl seemingly didn't know.

Then, he acually picks Dr. Flore right off the ground, and shakes him 3 time!


Why has god chosen only to embrace this one atheist? If he simply did this to all of them, well surely, they would all become reformed catholics.


ps

Im back

[Andrew]

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Why has god chosen only to embrace this one atheist?
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u know that aint true, i'm sure there are tons of other atheist-to-Christian testimonies out there, maybe less spectacular, maybe more spectacular...

[Corbin]

That may be true, but I bet they're almost all unverifiable. I've yet to see some supernatural event, or some divine intervention with my own eyes.

[Andrew]

Well u cld always go to Centro Cristiano Vida Abundante (Abundant Life Christian Centre) and interview the Doc and his family and friends... *LOL

[Jep]

Hi Corbin:

“I've yet to see some supernatural event, or some divine intervention with my own eyes.”

ME: Where have you looked?

[questian]

Even if this account is verifiably true, it is still a single incident that flies in the face of the general trend towards non-belief (at least in the U.S.). The following link is to the American Religious Identification Survey 2001 and shows an INCREASE in those who do not identify with religious practice. Whether this follows in other countries, I cannot say.

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/studies/aris_index.htm

[Andrew]

Even if this account is verifiably true, it is still a single incident that flies in the face of the general trend towards non-belief (at least in the U.S.).
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I'd prob have to agree with that - it's not an everyday thing for most people. but what i want to say here is also that there's NOTHING special about Doc Flores or his family that they shld be blessed and literally touched in such a tremendous and spectacular way by God.

It is totally up to God and he blesses by his grace and at his own pleasure. And he is full of grace and love. Who knows? You (the skeptic in gen.) might be next!

[Jep]

“Even if this account is verifiably true, it is still a single incident that flies in the face of the general trend towards non-belief (at least in the U.S.).”

ME: Where in the world did you ever get this idea? It certainly was not stated in your link that I can find. America believes in God almost 90% according the Gallop Poll that WvW posted in our debate and since 9-11 it seems to have gotten better:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=25363

So tell me, my friend. What strange new ethereal information has been telekinetically messaged only to you that there is no God? Almost no one else in the country agrees with you. Is it you? Or is it us?

[Andrew]

questian,

in addition to my response, the only trend i see happening is that the Church is getting more glorious (as in Acts times and as the day approaches for her bridegroom to come back and sweep her off her feet) .... while the world is getting darker, in prepraration for the arrival of the anti-christ, which will only be revealed when there is a "departing away" of the church.

[universe]

[What strange new ethereal information has been telekinetically messaged only to you that there is no God? ]

The information is right there. What exactly are you wanting to see there? I think the stuff I copied and posted will answer your comment. If I understood the problem, that is. Did you get a chance to look at the site?

Gallup polls are conducted by people who call people up at random on the telephone and ask them a set of questions which they are allowed to answer based on a series of selected answers. [I actually got to conduct some surveys for them a few years ago here in Austin.] The NSRI survey and the ARIS survey both sample larger portions of the population to give a more accurate overall response. (The larger the sample, the more accurate. If you ask 10 people vs asking 1000 people, the 1000 people survey will be more accurate.)

I copied this below off of the same link that Questian posted. The researchers who came up with the data collected their information from the NSRI 1990 survey and the ARIS 2001 survey.


"The NSRI 1990 study was a very large survey in which 113,723 persons were questioned about their religious preferences. However, it provided for no further detailed questioning of respondents regarding their religious beliefs or involvement or the religious composition of their household.

In the light of those lacunae in the 1990 survey, ARIS 2001 took steps to enhance both the range and the depth of the topics covered. For example, new questions were introduced concerning the religious identification of spouses. To be sure, budget limitations, have necessitated a reduction in the number of respondents. The current survey still covers a very large national sample (over 50,000 respondents) that provides a high level of confidence for the results and adequate coverage of most religious groups and key geographical units such as states and major metropolitan areas.

For the sake of analytic depth, additional questions about religious beliefs and affiliation as well as religious change were introduced for a smaller representative sub-sample of (17,000) households. Even this sample is about ten times greater than most typical opinion surveys of the US population. This sub-sample as well as the larger sample were weighted to reflect the total U.S. adult population"

[This is from a different section of the same linked site.]

"The first area of inquiry in ARIS 2001 concerns the response of American adults to the question: "What is your religion, if any?" This question generated more than a hundred different categories of response, which we classified into the sixty-five categories shown in Exhibit 1 below.

In 1990, ninety percent of the adult population identified with one or another religion group. In 2001, such identification has dropped to eighty-one percent.

Where possible, every effort was made to re-create the categories respondents offered to the nearly identical question as in the NSRI 1990 survey."

[Corbin]

ME: Where in the world did you ever get this idea? It certainly was not stated in your link that I can find. America believes in God almost 90% according the Gallop Poll that WvW posted in our debate and since 9-11 it seems to have gotten better:

So tell me, my friend. What strange new ethereal information has been telekinetically messaged only to you that there is no God? Almost no one else in the country agrees with you. Is it you? Or is it us?

Well that's true, most of the country believes in god. But that still doesn't mean much. Most people have average jobs, most people are unhappily married, most people are not very intelligent. MOST people are alot of things. It is easy to see how the vast majority out there is quite ignorant, and foolish about many of the decisions they make. That's a fact of life. So for the reason that most people believe in god, doesn't make me feel any more inclined to blindly follow the trend. If anything, it compels me to think hard about WHY these people believe in god? Then I must decide how to regard their reasons, based upon my current awareness and understanding.

[Corbin]

So tell me, my friend. What strange new ethereal information has been telekinetically messaged only to you that there is no God?

Why should someone believe in something they have no reason to believe in?

[Andrew]

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Why should someone believe in something they have no reason to believe in?
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For God SO loved Corbin, despite his skepticism, that he sent heaven's best, Christ Jesus, to be punished and put to death on his behalf, that Corbin may live forever, just by asking; that Christ may come into Corbin's life, fill him with supernatural peace, love and joy, give him an abundant God-kind of life, prosper him, heal him when he's sick, show him the deep things of God, bless his family and friends, etc, etc...

the reasons are all there Corbin, it's just whether you can "see" it, by God's grace you will one day.

[Jep]

Hi Corbin:

As a young man in college, I decided to discover truth for myself. I discovered some things that amazed me and served to build my faith immensely. For example, one thing I discovered was the massive amount of archeological evidence that supports the Bible right down to the minute detail.

Sir Austin Henry Layard, in 1845-51, located and excavated five different palaces of kings written about in the book of Genesis, thereby authenticating what unbelievers had previously called a fairy tale.

In 1918 two archeologists working for a British museum discovered a city where the Garden of Eden was thought to have been located. Modern archeologists agree that Eridu, traditionally the site of Eden, is perhaps the first city built in the history of man.

Ancient stones unearthed by archeologists tell the story of a flood happening during the very early days of man exactly as recorded in Genesis chapters 6-9. On these stones, the authors used several passages, such as “the age before the flood” and “the writings of the time before the flood.”

And actual deposits of material prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that a flood occurred.

At Ur in 1929 a team discovered an 8 foot stratus of clay deposited by a large amount of water. Under that clay were the ruins of a former city.

Fara was the traditional home of Noah, and in Fara, in 1931, an archeologist by the name of Schmidt found a layer of very clean, water-laid clay, and underneath that clay artifacts of an ancient, pre-flood population.

In Nineveh in 1932, Archeologist Mallowan unearthed layers of river type mud and riverine sand. Below this water-laid material, he found artifacts dating to a pre-flood indigenous population, and above it he found remnants and evidence of a later civilization.

In Kish in 1929, explorer Langdon found a thick bed of water-laid clay, and underneath this layer was a well preserved chariot made of wood and copper nails.

The tower of Babel story is told to most children in Sunday School class when kids study the eleventh chapter of Genesis. That tower was designed by naive people to reach the heights of heaven itself. But this irritated God, and he changed the languages of the construction workers so they could no longer communicate with one another. The Bible says “Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” (Gen. 11:7)

The tower was located in or near Babylon. According to scripture, Shinar (Gen. 11:2) is Babylonia.

An explorer named G. Smith found an ancient stone tablet in that area reading, “The building of this illustrious tower offended the gods. In a night they threw down what they had built. They scattered them abroad, and made strange their speech.”

In that same area Sir Henry Rawlinson found a cylinder in the wall of a building he was excavating. That cylinder was inscribed partially as follows, “The tower of Borsippa, which a former king erected, and completed to a height of 42 cubits, whose summit he did not finish, fell to ruins in ancient times. There was no proper care of its gutters for the water; rain and storms had washed away its brick, and the tiles of its roof were broken. The great god Marduk urged me to restore it. I did not alter its site or change its foundation walls. At a favorable time I renewed its brickwork and its roofing tiles, and I wrote my name on the cornices of the edifice....”

Some experts are led to believe that whoever inscribed that cylinder was describing a half finished tower very likely to be the uncompleted Tower of Babel. Finally, what was believed to be the base of the tower itself was discovered within the ruins of Babylon.

Discovery has been made of the Temptation Seal, an ancient Babylonian stone depicting the story of Adam and Eve as told in Genesis. The seal shows Eve picking fruit from a tree and a serpent communicating to her during this action. This proved that the Bible was much more than just a traditional writing, but a body of beliefs that were handed down from generation to generation since the dawning of time.

Bible critics who doubt the fact that Abraham even existed were closed mouthed when the cities written about in Genesis: Schechem, Bethel, Ai, Ur, and Gerar, were found and excavated. Moreover, two men by the names of Albright and Garstang found shards of pottery dating to 2000 B.C. in many of the bottom levels of these ruins. This is the exact time Abraham was said to have walked the streets of these cities.

Other books of the Bible are also well documented. There is scientific documentation for the incredible and supernatural story of Joshua, who marched around the walls of Jericho and watched the walls of that city fall when only trumpets were blown as the Lord had commanded.

The director of the British School of Archaeology, Dr. John Garstang, found the older city of Jericho (the new city of Jericho presently standing is on a different site) and excavated the ruins. By dating artifacts within the city, he found the fall of Jericho was estimated to have happened around 1400 BC, the same date the writings in the Bible inferred after examination by theologians.

Garstang’s crew was reportedly astounded when the excavation began to authenticate the Bible story right down to minute detail.

They discovered that the walls had fallen. The walls were so constructed that the fall of one wall had drug down the others, along with the houses within the structure.

But what fascinated me the most about this book was the way it was written. I discovered that this entire book from Genesis to Revelation was about one man, Jesus Christ. From early writings in Genesis where blood sacrifice is introduced to signify the ultimate blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, to the assertions to Abraham and Jacob that their seed would be blessed, Christ is magnified.

In Exodus the Passover was introduced and the homes of the Israelites were marked with the blood of the lamb.

Although they did not know it at the time, the lamb was to signify Jesus Christ who is called the lamb in many other places in the Bible, and the protective blood of that lamb was Jesus bleeding on a cross for his people.

In Psalms the mention of a man so obviously Jesus Christ are numerous. From Psalm 2 where God’s Son is anointed, to Psalm 16:10 where his resurrection is implied, to Psalm 22 where even the dying words of Christ on the cross are foretold, “My God, My God why hast thou foresaken me?”

In Isaiah Jesus is the primary subject. He is called “Immanuel,” “the wonderful child,” and “the Branch.”

The Old Testament was written hundreds of years before the birth of Christ, with the time period between Old and New Testaments estimated at 400 years. This document was authored by many different individuals in different locations. How could man have conspired to do this in ancient time? They did not even know one another for the most part!

The answer of course, is that they could not have done so. The Bible is a divinely created masterpiece inspired by God himself! The Bible is not man’s story written by man to other men; it is God Almighty’s message, written by God directly to man. Please consider how accurately the story of Jesus Christ was told long before He was even conceived:

“First He is called Shiloh, to arise in the tribe of Judah, and rule the nations. Then He is called Star, who will have dominion. And next, a Prophet like unto Moses, through Whom God will speak to mankind.

“And then, over and over, He is spoken of as a King, to arise in David’s family, to be called the Branch, the Prince, the Anointed One, God’s First-Born, Wonderful Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

“The exact time of his coming was foretold. He was to be born of a virgin. At Bethlehem. Part of his childhood (would) be spent in Egypt. He would be brought up at Nazareth.

“He would be introduced to His nation by an Elijah-like forerunner (i.e. John the Baptist). Galilee (would) be the scene of his ministry. He would work miracles of healing and speak in parables, be rejected by the leaders of His own nation, be a smitten Shepherd, a Sufferer, a Man of Sorrows. He would enter Jerusalem riding on a colt. He would be betrayed by a friend, for thirty pieces of silver, the thirty pieces of silver to be spent for a potter’s field. He would be led as a lamb to the slaughter.

“He would die with the wicked, opening a fountain for sin, removing sin in one day. Even his dying words were foretold. He would be given gall and vinegar in His agony. His hands and feet would be pierced. Not a bone (would) be broken. Lots (would) be cast for his garments. (He was) to be buried with the rich, to be in the tomb three days, to rise from the dead and ascend to heaven at God’s right hand.”

And now you know why I believe in God and His Holy Scriptures. Not only do I believe, I know, and through that knowledge I have faith. The Creator I believe in is not just some weenie Eastern philosophy led by an interesting man or a vague conception that the universe which sustains my life is so much grander than I and therefore worthy of worship. I have faith because I KNOW in what I believe. Its firm foundation in the history of man and evolution of society is indisputable by any intelligent person.

My God is the only God, the awesome, powerful, omniscient God of Israel! And I thank Him so much for saving a worthless sinner such as me. There could be no one who deserves this any less that me. I can assure you of that.

My friend, you need to insure that you understand all you know about this subject before you close your mind on it. If you ever decide there is even a chance that you could be wrong. Give God that chance. He will reveal Himself to you if you but dedicate your life to Him and ask Him too. Good luck in your search. Many of us have been that road.

Jerry AKA Jep

[GRANTM]

Greetings Corbin:

Qote:
{ most of the country believes in god. But that still doesn't mean much. Most people have average jobs, most people are unhappily married, most people are not very intelligent. MOST people are alot of things. It is easy to see how the vast majority out there is quite ignorant, and foolish about many of the decisions they make. That's a fact of life. So for the reason that most people believe in god, doesn't make me feel any more inclined to blindly follow the trend. If anything, it compels me to think hard about WHY these people believe in god? Then I must decide how to regard their reasons, based upon my current awareness and understanding. }

For a grade nine student you are asking all the right Questions
Which is What is that, that makes up Corbin? What is that that seperates me from all others. What is my uniqueness.

Those answer can only come from yourself. All anyone here can do is state what they believe in and why and it is your choice to evaluate and decide. No one is aking you to be a clone of them,
But to look into your heart and believe in yourself. The reason for your trying is God,

One GRANTM with his beliefs in this world is plenty enough, What the world needs is a Corbin to shine his light as brilliantly as possible to diminish the blackness of the surroundings.

I know that I have to work like anything just to keep up to a stopped clock, for a stopped clock is GUARANTEED to be right twice a day.

For a different Twist , from religion, try looking up" Rene Descartes", For a " Philosophers Proof" that God exists. Also the Rebuttals and his replies to these rebuttals, and above all keep an open mind,

[Corbin]

My God is the only God, the awesome, powerful, omniscient God of Israel! And I thank Him so much for saving a worthless sinner such as me. There could be no one who deserves this any less that me. I can assure you of that.

You cannot possibly know this. If all the things you say are true, which I'm sure they are, that still doesn't prove there's a god. That said, there is no way to prove there isn't a god either. That is why we must make our decision based upon all the information available. There is pleanty of information that would support the idea of god, and there is also pleanty of information that wouldn't



My friend, you need to insure that you understand all you know about this subject before you close your mind on it. If you ever decide there is even a chance that you could be wrong. Give God that chance. He will reveal Himself to you if you but dedicate your life to Him and ask Him too. Good luck in your search. Many of us have been that road.

I have not closed my mind to anything. I am in search of the truth, and I will not shut out any possibilities. Right now I am inclined to believe there isn't a god, with my current awareness and understanding, however, I know my awareness and understanding will change as I get older.

Perhaps you need to do the same?









For a grade nine student you are asking all the right Questions

I don't think you are tring to be condecending, but would you please elaborate on what you mean by for a grade 9 student ?

[GRANTM]

Greetings Corbin


Quote:

I don't think you are tring to be condecending, but would you please elaborate on what you mean by [I]for a grade 9 student

I was not trying to be condescending, The Grade Nine student reference refers back to your profile on this forum, Most Grade Nine students, That I know of, are more interested in trying
to get their first real date, than trying to figure out wether God exists or not. It's rare, in someone as young as you are , to Question and to try and derive an answer, Maybe if more teenagers did question, rather than just either accept or reject, there would be a much less suicide rate in that age group.

One caution though, I believe that god is as personal to me as he is to everyone else. remember I ,belive in God, but not religion, So that obviously my interpretation is different than others in this forum. Not that I am right and they are wrong we are just different. My rationale is something I have determined based on me. You are a different person, therfore ypu have to decide what is your rationale. But above all, and for all themeanings of life
for all your life keep asking questions.






Have you hade a chance to look at "Descarte"

[Corbin]

Have you hade a chance to look at "Descarte"

No I don't think I have, what exactly is it?

[GRANTM]

Hi Corbin:

Not a what, but a Who

First of, now many, Independant Philosophers, Not Religious leaders, Who theorize with reason, the existence of God. Others notables in this vein include Carl Jung. A little Deep,but you should be able to follow the Gist to make up your own mind,

Descartes' "Meditations of First Philosophy" ...
Meditations On First Philosophy Rene Descartes

http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/text...rt/des-med.htm
www.utm.edu/research/iep/text/descart/des-med,htm