Filled With The Spirit

[Fledge]

Just curious of everybody's opinions...

What, if any, is the difference of the "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit and the "infilling" of the Holy Spirit.

When does either/or/both of them occur, and what happens when it does happen?

[HIS]

Excellent questions Fledge…

Biblical Terminology

The Book of Acts describes the baptism of the Spirit in many ways: “filled with the Holy Ghost” (2:4); “the promise of the Holy Ghost” (2:33); “the gift of the Holy Ghost” (2:38); “the Holy Ghost fell on all them” (10:44); “poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost” (10:45); “received the Holy Ghost” (10:47); and “the Holy Ghost came on them” (19:6). The epistles explain that the Holy Spirit dwells in us (Romans 8:9). All these phrases simply identify the same New Testament experience in different ways. When empty human vessels are baptized in the Spirit, they are filled with the Spirit. When God pours out His Spirit on people, the Spirit comes on them, they receive the Spirit, and they are filled with the Spirit. When God gives the Spirit, He fulfills His promise and men receive the Spirit.

Some descriptions compare the Holy Spirit to water, and Jesus described the Spirit as living water that would quench spiritual thirst (John 4:14; 7:38). However, the Holy Spirit is not actually a fluid but is God Himself. The Bible also associates the Spirit with fire (Matthew 3:11) and wind (John 3:8), but the Spirit is not literally fire, wind, or water.

Filled with the Spirit

This phrase appears in Acts as the equivalent of “baptized with the Holy Ghost” with both describing the initial experience of receiving the Spirit of God to dwell in one’s life.

Some time after Pentecost a number of Spirit-baptized believers came together for a prayer meeting and were “filled with the Holy Ghost” (Acts 4:31). God met with these believers in a mighty way and renewed their original experience. When Peter spoke to the Jewish religious council he was “filled with the Holy Ghost” (Acts 4:8). Paul, “filled with the Holy Ghost,” prophesied that the sorcerer Barjesus would be blind for a time (Acts 13:9). From these instances we see that filled may mean a special, momentary endowment of power to one who has already been baptized in the Spirit. Today, many speak of this endowment as being anointed by the Spirit. Other verses use the term “filled” to describe the continual dwelling of the Spirit in one who has been baptized in the Spirit. The seven men chosen to assist the apostles were “full of the Holy Ghost” (Acts 6:3, 5).

Paul exhorted the Ephesian church to “be filled with the Spirit” (Ephesians 5:18). The latter verse is an exhortation to Spirit-baptized believers to let the Spirit continually control them. In this sense, to be “filled with the Spirit” is basically the same as to “walk after the Spirit” (Romans 8:4), meaning to receive daily guidance and power from the Spirit. Even when a backslider repents, he is not “baptized” with the Spirit again, but refilled.

Note also: Due to the backslider’s faithlessness and disobedience, he is disinherited, but he is not “unborn.”

The historic fact of his regeneration and justification is still a reality. When he repents he does not need to be “born again” another time. He does not experience a second baptism of water or a second baptism of the Spirit, for the original baptism of water and Spirit becomes effective again when he repents. Instead, he is simply restored to a justified status and entitled once again to inherit eternal life as an obedient son of God.

In sum, the phrase “filled with the Spirit” can convey any one of these three meanings in apostolic church usage: (1) the initial Spirit baptism; (2) the daily guidance and power that the Spirit grants to Spirit-baptized believers who continue to yield to Him, and (3) subsequent experiences that renew the initial experience. We must distinguish the baptism of the Spirit from all Old Testament experiences with God. The filling of the Spirit in Acts is different from the filling of the Spirit that John the Baptist had. It is a new experience for a new church.

Part of Salvation

Every description of the work of the Spirit in the initial experience of salvation can be equated with the baptism of the Spirit. The baptism of the Spirit is the same as the birth of the Spirit (John 3:5; Chapter 4.) The Spirit first begins to “dwell” in a person’s life when he is baptized with the Spirit. Any other alternative would not be logical.

For example, how can the Spirit dwell in a person if he has not received the Spirit, if he has not been filled with the Spirit, if the Spirit has not come upon him, or if the Spirit has not fallen upon him?

Grace and Peace to you!
HIS

[Andrew]

Just curious of everybody's opinions...
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Okay, since you asked for it I'll give my OWN understanding thus far...

when you say "indwelling", "infilling" of the Holy Spirit, to me there's no diff. its the same thing. BUT the terms (to me) mean something more than/beyond just being born again.

i cannot find anywhere in scripture where it says explicitly that we are filled automatically with the Holy Spirit at conversion. ie we automatically receive the indwelling or infilling of the Holy Spirit at born again time.

in fact, i find in Luke 11:11 that we ASK for the third person of the trinity. In acts we find that Philip (i think) had to ask Peter to come down to lay hands on blievers to receive the Holy Spirit. i also bear in mind that the Holy Spirit is a third PERSON of the Godhead. ie He's someone we ought to know, besides Jesus and God. it's just that whenever I read Acts, i find that the infilling of the Holy Spirit is really a separate event, not one and the same with conversion, except in Cornelius' case.

so, to me, generally speaking, a believer who' already a believer, has to ASK/invite for the infilling of the Holy Spirit. for the third Person to come in and dwell and to lead and to empower. so many of us ask why some Christians call themselves Christians yet live like that. my answer is that one of the main answers is that there's a missing link, the Holy Spirit's indwelling.

next question: how do you know He's come in? ok this is the part where most people get upset. my answer is tongues. reason? i just want to follow the pattern in Acts. that's my own conviction. beyond this sign, there's much change and victory in the believers life.

my opinion as asked for, so dont shoot me for it!

btw: am not Pentecostal, never was.

[Fledge]

I in no way intend this to be a debate thread or a heated discussion thread. I was looking for opinions, and everybody's is different. Well, maybe not EVERYBODY'S...but enough. You know what I mean.

So hey, I may disagree with your your opinion, and I may not. But just getting the opinions is all I was wanting.

I'll start another thread at another time where we can serious discuss, challenge each other.

I have my opinion as to "infilling"/"indwelling"...but that comes later as I was looking for OTHER thoughts.

[Steven]

Hi Andrew.


Andrew romans 9:8 or was it 8:9 hmmm.

You are not in the flesh,but in the spirit,if so the spirit of God dwell in you,now if any man hath not the spirit of Christ he is none of his.

This verse definately says that one is immediately baptised in the spirit of God upon inviting him in.

According as he hath chosen us in Christ...

Behold I stand at the door and knock,if any man will hear and open unto me,I will come in.....

In short salvation is having the spirit of Christ in you.

Now as for tongues etc... being evidence of having the holy spirit in you,the bible says otherwise.

Hope is the evidence of things not seen.


That hope is the faith that God gives us,it is more than just human hope,it is assurance,the spirit of God telling us that we are his and that he will live up to all he has told us.


Steven

[Andrew]

Steven,

I'm aware of the verses you quoted, but they still do not state explicity that the Holy Spirit comes in automatically at the point of conversion. the main words here are explicitly/directly and automatically.

Yes one may infer strongly from the 2 verses and i'm not denying that. I basically believe that too for the longest time, but i'm beginning to discover that there cld be something more.

i just know that what the 120 experienced in the upper room in Acts 2 is not simply the born again experience but something beyond that that is available to all believers.

Also, lets say that according to the early church in Acts, the norm was to repent and believe, then receive the Holy Ghost as a seal with tongues as the sign, either thru the laying of hands or otherwise. That's the pattern i keep seeing when I read Acts. Let's say that was the norm. lets say it was taken for granted/understood at that time that that's what should happen to all new converts.- repent, then receive the Holy Spirit - generally 2 sep things

Then, since Romans was written after Acts, it can be argued that Paul already assumes that believers wld have the Holy Ghost with tongues as a sign (that being the norm/pattern in Acts, that being the instructions given then). so, when he writes "without th Spirit of Christ...none of his" it cld well mean that unless you have the Holy Spirit in you with tongues as a sign, you dont belong to Christ. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? Can you see now why some Christians (like True Jesus church) believe that?

I'm not sayind i buy that totally, but i can see why they say that and where they are coming from. I have had two friends who witnessed that to me a long time ago, and i thot they were nuts, but now i can appreciate why they believe that.

as to whether tongues is the sign or not, i'll just say
1. I'll stick with the pattern in Acts. that's my personal yardstick so to speak.
2. All who are open to it can receive.

[Steven]

Hi Andrew

The verse in question explicitly says that if the spirit of God is not in you,you are not one of his,meaning you have not been born again,you are not saved,you have never known the father.


What the 120 experienced in the upper room was being born again,it was the comforter,the holy ghost,the spirit of God.Peter speaking boldly,understanding of the scriptures,heretofore they had not understood the scriptures,and they certainly hadnt been bold enough to preach Gods word openly.



Being born again,is being born of God spiritually,meaning recieving his spirit,the holy spirit.


Tongues were never for a sign to the church,never served for the church,their strict and total purpose was for a sign to the jews,isaiah prophesied that God would speak to the jews with people of other tongues and stammering lips,and for all this they would not believe him.that is why paul says it is for a sign to the unbelieving ,its to the unbelieving jew that the spiritual kingdom was come,for the jews required a sign,they always did and always will.The church lives by faith,not by sight,not requiring a sigmn,i was found of them that sought me not.

Furthermore,the tongues of todaty bear no resemblence to those described in scripture,then everyman heard in his own laguage,so it was either each man getting up and speaking a foreign language,or like an international interpreter speaking to all through one man,i really believe it is the former,that they one at a time got up and addressed a different language.


Let me ask you,if a preacher came to church speaking chinese would greeks understand,no they wouldnt so he better have an interpreter if greeks are there,otherwise if they dont understand what is being said they will recieve no blessing from it,yet it is the holy spirit giving the message through the man speaking chinese.


Steven

[HIS]

Originally posted by Andrew
lets say that according to the early church in Acts, the norm was to repent and believe, then receive the Holy Ghost as a seal with tongues as the sign, either thru the laying of hands or otherwise. That's the pattern i keep seeing when I read Acts. Let's say that was the norm. lets say it was taken for granted/understood at that time that that's what should happen to all new converts.- repent, then receive the Holy Spirit - generally 2 step things..."

Andrew...I like your statement above. I am very impressed by your insight (throughout your post) and respect it very much, BUT aren't you forgetting a step in this statement above?

Biblical Example #1:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, AND be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Note: Yes...We know they believed Peter and his message, because we read in verse 37 that they ask, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

So...How many steps?

1) Believe
2) Repent
3) Be Baptized (In Jesus name)
4) Receive the Holy Ghost...

************

Biblical Example #2:

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Question: Step #1 (believe) covered?

Answer: "when they believed..." (YES)

Question: Step #2 (repentance) covered?

Answer: Not specifically stated, but obvious by their obedience to step #3 (see below).

Question: Step #3 (baptism in the name of Jesus Christ) covered?

Answer: "and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized..."

Question: DOES THE BIBLE TEACH that you "automatically" receive the Holy Ghost upon "believing" or "accepting Christ"?

Answer: See next three verses for answer from God instead of answer from man...

Acts 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Note: As you can see from above, the Scripture does not teach that you automatically receive the Holy Ghost when believing or accepting Christ (which is not even a biblical term).

**************

Example #3:

Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band...

Acts 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always.

Question: Step #1 (believe) covered?

Answer: "A devout man, and one that feared God..."

Question: Step #2 (repentance) covered?

Answer: The verse above should be obvious. But, just in case you feel I might be reading into the Scripture, you could read Peter's statement when describing to others his experience and visit with Cornelius in chapter 11:

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted REPENTANCE unto life.

Note: This next verse provides proof that one can receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism in Jesus name.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Question: How did they know they received the Holy Ghost?

Answer: Next verse...

Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

Question: Does this mean we can skip any steps or "commandments" that are, as Luke states: "pertaining to the Kingdom of God"?

Answer: Let's see how Peter feels about skipping any steps...

Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Summary: Must still be relative to the Kingdom of God.

**************

So relative, that some needed to be re-baptized...

Biblical Example #4:

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples.

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

Question: Step #1 (believed) covered?

Answer: Paul seemed to assume so...

Question: Step #2 (repentance) covered?

Answer: Again, must have been assumed by Paul or he would not have asked if they had received the Holy Ghost.

Question: Step #2 (water baptism) or #3 (spirit baptism) covered?

Answer: Let's read on:

"And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."

Note: By their statement above, Paul immediately know something must be wrong. Could it be...Their water baptism?

Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized?

Their response: "And they said, Unto John's baptism."

Paul's reply: That's it! You need to be re-baptized! Jesus has commanded baptism in HIS name...You have only been baptized unto John and his baptism:

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Question: Did they obey step #2?

Answer: See next verse...

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Question: Did they receive step #3?

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

**************

Andrew...I only used the statements step #1, #2, etc. because you used these expressions. I don't necessarily like to talk about salvation in terms of exact order of steps. This is why I made the point regarding Acts 10 and how that Cornelius and those with him actually received the Holy Ghost prior to being baptized in water in the name of Jesus. Clearly one can receive God's Gift of the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism. But, clearly...It is also "commanded" that they follow through and get baptized in water according to the commandement of the Lord as something that is "pertaining to the Kingdom of God."

Note: One MUST believe and have or express some type of repentance before water baptism is valid and prior to God baptizing them with His Spirit...

I have only given you all of these examples to show you that you have missed stating one essential element (step) that you should have noticed in the "pattern" of the ACTionS of the Apostles.

May God bless your continued efforts to put His word first...

[Andrew]

Steven,
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Furthermore,the tongues of todaty bear no resemblence to those described in scripture
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you cant really verify that unless you were there at that time.
firstly, there are thousands of langs in the world, no one can recognise all of them (at most 10?) . how do you know the tongue you heard does not belong to some tribe somewhere?

secondly, there are many instances today in which the tongue was recognised by a person who had learned the lang. (see for eg John Wimber's account i put in the skeptology section under the thread "Converted by the power of God...")

the evidence that this gift is still for today is just too overwhleming.

[Andrew]

HIS,

Thank you for your comprehensive answer. Yes I did seem to "miss out" on water baptism but it wasnt intentional. it's just that the original focus here was the Spirit's infilling.

I agree that water baptism is very important and we are commanded to do so by our Lord. I was infant baptised but recently (at age 33) got water baptised by immersion, despite my former church telling me that i cld not do it. so you can see i take it seriously.

but i think where we disagree (we had this dicussion not long ago i think) is that i don't consider water baptism as necessary for salvation. but i do not want to go into that again.

--------------
Note: As you can see from above, the Scripture does not teach that you automatically receive the Holy Ghost when believing or accepting Christ (which is not even a biblical term).
--------------
yes, i'm glad you can see that too. that's what i was trying to point out. but we also know that the two events can take place simultaneously, as in Cornelius' case. again, i find that in Acts, and Luke 11:11, the Holy Spirit must be "asked for, invited in".

my current belief is still this: when we are born again, our human spirit is made alive/recreated. The Holy Spirit comes in but in a limited measure. I think of him as being "resident". But when one is baptised in the Holy Spirit as with the 120, He comes in a fuller measure and becomes "president" in your life. Others have explained it as a well/spring of water vs rivers water, or former rain vs latter rain.

I tend to be moving towards the belief that there isnt the limited-then-fuller argument, but simply either you have the Holy Spirit in you or you dont. The only problem this creates is the verses: "those who who not have the Spirit of Christ are none of his", and "behold i stand at the door and knock...." I believe we already belong to Him at born again time. Yet, perhaps these 2 verses refer to receiving Jesus (Spirit of Christ), not so much the Third Person. anyway just my thots.

This is by no means a water-tight argument but it's the best i can offer so far.

God bless

[HIS]

Originally posted by Andrew
Yes I did seem to "miss out" on water baptism but it wasnt intentional. it's just that the original focus here was the Spirit's infilling.

Andrew...I do know and understand that you feel baptism is very important and I appreciate your support in this behalf. I have noticed from your past replies and postings that you take this commandment seriously.

There are other points I have not yet made regarding the name of Jesus and the significance of baptism in God's plan (through my extensive study of the Scripture). Perhaps we can discuss them at another time.

***********

I am happy that we both agree on the point that the Holy Ghost is not given automatically when first "believing." I assume that when you say one must "ask for or invite in" that they are not "begging" for this free gift (as some would seem to do in real life when ignorant of seeking after it). The condition of the heart is the most important factor for God when making the decision on whether to give it to anyone...

**********

I tend to be moving towards the belief that there isnt the limited-then-fuller argument, but simply either you have the Holy Spirit in you or you dont.

I would agree with this quote above...

**********

The only problem this creates is the verses: "those who who not have the Spirit of Christ are none of his", and "behold i stand at the door and knock...."

Would you not agree with me that just because someone has not received the Holy Ghost (which is the Spirit of God or "Spirit of Christ") that this does not mean God is not moving in their life or calling them to come "closer" to HIM?

A prime example is Cornelius (Acts 10). Was it not said that he was a devout man and just and feared God with all of his house? That he also prayed aways and gave much to those in need?

Yet, did he have the Spirit of God in him prior to his meeting with Peter?

Would you also agree with me that the Scripture certainly does not try to suggest that Cornelius had the Spirit of Christ but not the Holy Ghost?

In fact, the Scripture does not say there are two or more Spirits to God. God is only ONE Spirit according to the Scripture:

1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 4:4-5 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

I believe we already belong to Him at born again time.

Andrew...The correct (Biblical) definition of being "born again" is that of being born of "water and Spirit." If one has already been born of these two elements then one naturally (already) belongs to HIM.

Yet, perhaps these 2 verses refer to receiving Jesus (Spirit of Christ), not so much the Third Person.

Again...God is not made up of two or more Spirits. If you see a verse in the Scripture that says this, please let me know.

Please note:

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

It is clear that the Apostle Paul uses the expression or phrases "Spirit of God" and "Spirit of Christ" interchangeably. In other words...When you say the Spirit of God, you should understand that this is the Spirit of (that was in) Christ. Likewise, when you speak to someone regarding the Spirit of Christ, you should understand that you are talking about the very Spirit of Almighty God.

Remember: God (who is SPIRIT) was in CHRIST (the man).

This is not only water-tight but bullet proof...

Take care my friend. Thanks again for your comments.

HIS

[Steven]

Hi Andrew
Me:
The tongues of today bear no resemblence to the biblical tongues

You: You cant really verify that you werent there...


Me: The scriptures verify that,I didnt need to be there.I fully and clearly explained to you just exactly what the scriptures said,if you want to know the truth go back and read my first post,because there the truth is found.

You: The evidence that the gift is still around is overwhelming..


Me: The scriptures state the gifts purpose,time and place,they also state that it ceased,the gift you see is from the devil,no ifs ands or buts,its a seducing spirit.

Once again,if you want the truth go back and read my first post.




Its unfortunate,but i think many in your shoes are so sucked in by the tongues experience that you dont want the truth,youve been duped by the devil into believing this gift and others are still being dispensed by God,but in reality they are now being dispensed by the devil himself.




Steven

[Andrew]

Steven,
-------------------
The scriptures state the gifts purpose,time and place,they also state that it ceased,the gift you see is from the devil,no ifs ands or buts,its a seducing spirit.

tongues experience that you dont want the truth,youve been duped by the devil into believing this gift and others are still being dispensed by God,but in reality they are now being dispensed by the devil himself.
---------------------

So my tongue speaking Pastor who has these gifts "from the devil", somehow gave up his lucrative career to serve Jesus with a passion, preaches Christ and Christ crucified 4 times on Sunday and twice in the week, has about 50 people giving their lives to Jesus a week, has thousands of people lining up for an hour just to get into church, loves his wife with a passion, has healed hopless cancer patients by the power of God, has God confirm his ministry with signs and wonders and blessings, has people hungering for more of Jesus and the Word? *LOL*

You are clearly the one duped by the devil. Cessationists who refuse the gifts of the Holy Spirit are missing out in these last days. And you just blasphemed against the Holy Spirit, attributing His works to the devil.

You can blaspheme the Holy Spirit all you want, as for me and my church, we'll just continue to bask in His power and gifts, and walk that victorious life!

[Andrew]

Would you also agree with me that the Scripture certainly does not try to suggest that Cornelius had the Spirit of Christ but not the Holy Ghost?
----------------

Yes, there's only one Spirit. Spirit of Christ = Holy Spirit. I was just giving some thots.

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Would you not agree with me that just because someone has not received the Holy Ghost (which is the Spirit of God or "Spirit of Christ") that this does not mean God is not moving in their life or calling them to come "closer" to HIM?
------------------

Are you refering to that "someone" who's a sinner or the believer?

If believer, then that means after saved (eg saying the sinner's prayer) he has yet to receive the Holy Ghost. Then that begs the question "How do I receive the Holy Spirit" and after that "How do I know I have the Holy Spirit?"

God bless

[HIS]

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven..."

Steven...If it came from heaven, don't you think you should be careful what you say about it?

Your speech sounds more like what you heard across the pulpit than honest (and open minded) review (from yourself) of the Scriptures.

Just freindly advice...I care about you,

HIS

[HIS]

Originally posted by Andrew
Are you refering to that "someone" who's a sinner or the believer?

If believer, then that means after saved (eg saying the sinner's prayer) he has yet to receive the Holy Ghost. Then that begs the question "How do I receive the Holy Spirit" and after that "How do I know I have the Holy Spirit?"

Andrew...I just read your posting and statement above. Sorry, I don't have time to respond now, but I will certainly try and reply by this weekend.

Thank you for your other comments!

Take care,
HIS

[Steven]

Hi Andrew


An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign.

and show signs and wonders insomuch that it were possible even the elect would be decieved.

2tim.4:20 but trophimus i have left at miletum sick.

It seems pauls gift of laying on hands for healing must have past at this time if he left a brother somewhere sick.


Ive already gone through the tongues thing with you,and you didnt even care to investigate if the things i said were true,if you had investigated you might well have found those things are true,so i will forbear speaking about the tongues thing.


Is it any wonder that the children of the devil appear as mninisters of righteousness(Christian preachers) for the devil himself appeareth as an angel of light.

luke 6:32 for if ye love them wich love you,what thank have you? for even sinners love those that love them.


Philipians 3:18 for many walk of whom i have told you often,and now tell you even weeping,that they are enemies of the cross of christ.


This is refering to so called christian preachers again.


Andrew as you are well aware there a plenty of scriptures in the bible that warn of false preachers,who are decieving and being decieved,if i was you i would ask God to reveal to you wether this man is of God or not,because the scriptures have to me already indicated he is not, many lost people love their wives and families,hordes of people talk in an unbiblical tongue thing,paul left his friend at rome sick,wich must mean his laying on of hands for healing gift had departed,many people hunger and thirst for men this way,people with lots of charisma do draw people unto themselves.It seems to me that you put more stock in what your pastor says than what the holy scriptures say,and thats ok for you,but there is a consequence to worshipping this man,its called eternal damnation,if I was you I would turn away from this man and unto God,for in him and him only lies salvation.

Steven

[HIS]

Hello Andrew...

Your statement:

"How do I receive the Holy Spirit" and after that "How do I know I have the Holy Spirit?"

My reply:

I believe you can receive it the same way they did in the Bible. Many talk themselves out of God’s promise by ignoring God’s Word; but, if you believe, you can and "shall receive." It is a simple principle taught by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Faith to receive (from Him) is all God is expecting from each and everyone one of us…

So, my answer to your first question is that if you follow the same teachings that are in the Scripture, you will not be disappointed.

The first place I see where someone explains how you receive it and how you know is by the Lord Himself when He was speaking to Nicodemus. After Jesus explained that a person must be born of water and of the Spirit, He made the following statement:

“The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.” John 3:8

To me, this was stated in “parable” format. You must carefully consider what Jesus is describing in the “natural” to understand the “spiritual.” Jesus often explained spiritual truths by describing what you and I (everyone) sees and understands in the natural sense.

So, what is this verse saying?

Naturally, the wind blows wherever is desires or pleases…

NOTE: You HEAR a sound (wind blowing against things) but, you really cannot say exactly where it came from or where it (truly) is going next…

So is “everyone” who is born of the Spirit!

Conclusion: Unless your new birth experience of the “birth of the Spirit” agrees with this verse, you likely did not receive proper teachings about it and you likely have not yet received it.

Am I being fair with this statement?

The questions are: What does the wind and sound in this verse represent, AND how do they tie in to the birth of the Spirit that JESUS is speaking of to Nicodemus?

I will allow you to comment before I continue...

God bless,
HIS

[HIS]

Originally posted by Steven
An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign.

Please Note: True believers don't follow signs. Signs follow THEM.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues...

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him.

Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will...

You are speaking to the wrong crowd...

I encourage you to exercise simple faith and believe on the Lord for all of His promises. It is a biblical principle and spiritual law of God that you can't receive, if you don't want to believe. Please reconsider you position on this matter and look to the teachings of Jesus Christ and His apostles. Don't rely on what is being taught in churches today.

2 Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

With Christian Love,
HIS

[mickey1]

#1. To Andrew:

What the 120 experienced in that room is still being experienced here today. I personally have experienced this. I do not have any scripture quotes - however, I believe that people can be "IN" spirit. (yes, spirit - with a small "S"). I believe that each person has a spirit that they can use to contact the Spirit of God. When I am in spirit - I feel as I am sure those 120 did, overwhelming joy and love and peace. It cannot really be described only experienced. In my opinion the Indwelling of the Spirit happens when you are saved, and the infilling of the Spirit happens when you use your spirit to contact God.

#2. Speaking in Tongues...

I agree with quite a lot that STEVEN wrote. The need for speaking in tongues originated from the Tower of Bable. The reason that people needed the Holy Ghost was so that they could communicate with others. However, in the present there is less of a need for that. I believe that some people do, in earnest, speak in tongues. However I also believe that some of the time it is the Devil. All I know for sure is that I have never spoken in tongues, and I believe that if I were to, I would be afraid of what I was saying. In biblical times there were translators who could tell everyone what the person was saying, however now no one could tell me what I am saying. That would frighten me. Anyway, I have never spoken in tongues and I am saved. I cannot have my salvation taken away from me and I never again need to be baptised. I have been saved, the Lord will never leave me, nor forsake me.

mickey