More Important than the Presidency?

[Robert R. Higby]

I personally believe there are issues in the current election even more important than the Presidency. Control of the Senate is one. But the most important issue of all, in my judgment, is the passage of Amendment 8 in California.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Califor...ition_8_(2008)

I am really upset that Prop 22 in 2000, which should have settled the issue for good, has not been upheld because of a corrupt activist state supreme court. Right now the polls on Prop 8 are neck-and-neck.

This is not something I can vote for but certainly something I can give money to. Believe me, if this fails, the consequences will last for GENERATIONS. It was the legalization of abortion in California that led to Roe vs. Wade a few years later; passage of 'progressive' law there sets a precedent for the rest of the country (unlike Massachusetts). This one will set the precedent for the Federal supreme court to force homosexual marriage on the whole country. The results of all this cannot be undone IN ANY MEASURE in another election 4 years from now; it will take nothing less than a new constitutional amendment.

For further information:

http://www.protectmarriage.com/

[Brandan Kraft]

I think we'll like the results of Prop 8 vote. Homosexual marriage is not supported by the majority of people in this country - EVEN nutty Kalifornia!

[Brandan Kraft]

Oh and btw, I believe the McCain and Palin have this election in the bag! It's OVER for the big O!

[trav]

I agree Darth, even though I don't want them in there.

[trav]

I don't know WHO I want for President???????

[Highlyfavored]

You sure you want change?

[lionovjudah]

Oh and btw, I believe the McCain and Palin have this election in the bag! It's OVER for the big O!

Yes, being down by a dozen points in the General. The Electoral college map has them down everywhere. Palin does not even know her job description. Your own state is going to vote for Obama, (hang on to your guns and faith BK) that is all you will have left!!!! LOLOLOL

McCain and Palin have them right where they want him.

I will give M & P credit though. They can look in the camera and actually believe they are winning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My final prediction is Obama 360 McCain 198

[Brandan Kraft]

Yes, being down by a dozen points in the General. The Electoral college map has them down everywhere. Palin does not even know her job description. Your own state is going to vote for Obama, (hang on to your guns and faith BK) that is all you will have left!!!! LOLOLOL

McCain and Palin have them right where they want him.

I will give M & P credit though. They can look in the camera and actually believe they are winning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My final prediction is Obama 360 McCain 198

The polls are rigged.

[Highlyfavored]

The polls are rigged.

What if the voting machines are too?

[Robert R. Higby]

Palin does not even know her job description.

So is it this type of obvious media propaganda utilizing the art of emotional deception (regardless of which side is being supported) that is determining your vote LOJ? Such tripe can be parroted by anyone against anybody.

Obama and Biden are against Prop 8 which to me signifies that they are both clearly pro-homosexual marriage, in spite of their claim to be against it. Their claim to be against it is 'personal belief' just like it is in the case of abortion.

Let's move the comments on the Presidential race to a different thread! I intended this one to be a discussion of Prop 8 and homosexual marriage.

[Robert R. Higby]

My greatest 'fear' on this issue and everything else in the current election (though such 'fear' is unnecessary in light of God's control) is the hardening of hearts by God. The bottom line is: we never know for sure whether the Lord is going to extend a measure of mercy to His elect, soften hearts, and cause the 'right' position to win out (in terms of this world's issues) or extend overdue judgment, harden hearts, and cause the 'wrong' position to win out.

I, for one, would not be surprised if the Lord hardens hearts in this election. The citizens of America (and MANY other countries) are ripe for judgment and the Lord may very well extend a measure of what they deserve. He will not extend ALL of what they deserve in this life but may cause people to accept homosexual marriage, then pour out the most awful material judgments on this country as a result.

The Lord will preserve His elect through all of this, I firmly believe (as I have stated so many times). I have a very keen conviction that this is not the time that the Lord will cause the growth of the true gospel in a VERY small measure, hidden from the reprobates entirely, to be noticed and destroyed. Others may differ.

My firm beliefs,

--Bob

[Brandan Kraft]

My greatest 'fear' on this issue and everything else in the current election (though such 'fear' is unnecessary in light of God's control) is the hardening of hearts by God.

Mine too! Mine too! I see it all around me - evidence of God's judgment on the people. Those who are not in Christ will vote for evil (Obama) and in doing so partake of his crimes against the Lord.

The citizens of America (and MANY other countries) are ripe for judgment and the Lord may very well extend a measure of what they deserve.

Agreed - many will suffer, and rightly so!

[lionovjudah]

Palin does not even know her job description.

So is it this type of obvious media propaganda utilizing the art of emotional deception (regardless of which side is being supported) that is determining your vote LOJ? Such tripe can be parroted by anyone against anybody.

Obama and Biden are against Prop 8 which to me signifies that they are both clearly pro-homosexual marriage, in spite of their claim to be against it. Their claim to be against it is 'personal belief' just like it is in the case of abortion.

Let's move the comments on the Presidential race to a different thread! I intended this one to be a discussion of Prop 8 and homosexual marriage.

I thought Prop 8 was legalization of pot. Sorry bob.

[Dorcas]

I think we'll like the results of Prop 8 vote. Homosexual marriage is not supported by the majority of people in this country - EVEN nutty Kalifornia!

I pray you are right, but I would not be too sure.

The majority of people definitely do not agree with homosexual marriage, but they are pushing it hard here as a denial of civil rights. Basically the line being touted every 5 minutes on tv and radio is "regardless of what you think about marriage, its wrong to take away fundamental rights." They are pushing it as a civil rights and discrimination issue akin to denying women the right to vote or putting black people in the back of the bus.

I have never seen so much money and activism as I have the last week or so. All the sudden they are out in droves attempting to defeat this proposition. Hopefully this means they are scared they are going to lose, but I'm afraid that there are enough stupid and fickle people that might be swayed.

Our huge influx of Spanish speaking (Catholic) immigrants might be the saving grace on this one, depending on how many of them can actually vote. I have only seen spanish language prop 8 signs for "si".

[Robert R. Higby]

This is an extract of the latest e-mail I received from the Protect Marriage campaign:
____________________________________________

Dear Friend,

With every recent poll showing Proposition 8 slightly leading or surging with support, our opponents are growing increasingly desperate.

They have aired two new commercials this weekend that are nothing short of shameful. In one, they compare people who believe in traditional marriage to those responsible for the internment of Japanese Americans during World War II. And in another they call backers of traditional marriage, “intolerant” and “offensive.”

Did you ever dream that because you believe marriage is between a man and a woman you’d be called "intolerant," "offensive" and have it suggested you are racist to boot?

Do the tactics of our opponents anger you? They anger me. But let’s not lash out. Let’s use this as motivation to maximize our get-out-the-vote efforts so that we send a powerful message on Tuesday: Proposition 8 will pass because traditional marriage matters.

The commercials from our opponents are so desperate and over the top that I think there is a very good chance they will backfire with voters. Still, our opponents’ smear campaign cannot go unanswered. That’s why we have created a new video to remind California voters – and our dedicated Yes on 8 volunteers -- about which side has truly displayed intolerant and offensive behavior in this campaign.

http://protectmarriage.com/tell

I’ve never seen such boorish behavior and such utter disregard for principles of fair play – not to mention respect for freedom of expression – as I have seen from opponents of Proposition 8. For a community that demands tolerance from others, they seem completely incapable of showing tolerance for anyone who may disagree with them on traditional marriage.

There are some important things you can do to fight back against these latest attacks. First, please share our new video with your friends, family, colleagues and neighbors so they can evaluate our opponents’ outrageous claims for themselves. Most importantly, please sign up to work on Election Day. We’re in the process of mobilizing 100,000 people to help us get Yes on 8 voters to the polls. We need people to phone voters and knock on doors to remind our supporters that Tuesday is “D-Day” for marriage.
Even though support for Proposition 8 is surging and we have momentum, the race is very close. Every vote matters. Please forward our new video now, and make sure you are part of our volunteer army on Election Day.

[MCoving]

Is that measure only in California this year? I know Oregon voted for something like that in 2004, and of course it went to a yes vote that marriage is only between men and women legally. So yeah I was just curious what states have voted yes for it or are still considering the measure.

[Robert R. Higby]

Mary,

It was already voted down in 2000 in the fashion of all these other states. What happened is this: in spite of the voters, localities in favor of homosexual marriage continued to perform the ceremonies and grant certificates. So it went to the activist 'anti-constitutionalist' (in my estimation) Supreme Court of California which overturned the 2000 vote of the people 4-3.

This vote is for a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT to overturn the Supreme Court decision and let the vote of the people stand! It is not like any vote on homosexual marriage in any other state. If the proposition fails, it will embolden the Supreme Court of the United States to make homosexual marriage the law of the land, which then must be overturned by an Amendment to the U.S. Constitution to overthrow it.

[Brandan Kraft]

Right and the only way to beat the USSC is to do one of the following...

1. Ignore their ruling (Andrew Jackson) - "He has made his decision, now let him enforce it."
   
2. Replace the justices (via replacement nominees).
   
3. Pad the court (FDR) via constitutional amendment (requires 75% state legislature majority for ratification) and then attempt to get the ruling you desire.
   
4. Pass a constitutional amendment (requires 75% state legislature majority for ratification) with the regulation you desire.

If facing tyrannical federal rule and if option 2-4 are not viable, then I propose that sovereign state governments have a duty to their people to consider and implement option 1 and if necessary secede and FIGHT for their RIGHT to do so!

[Robert R. Higby]

Incidentally, Ron Paul opposes Prop 8:

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/67484

I have never seen him present a weaker argument on anything. It completely ignores the fact that marriage in this society includes the right to adopt children as a couple, the right to all the married tax advantages of our corrupt tax code, the right to divorce legally, the right to all the insurance benefits of married couples (including those in government plans), etc.

According to the 'civil rights' logic of those who oppose the government right to define marriage, NOTHING could possibly be off limits: people have a right to define marriage as traditional polygamy, polygamy of a single woman and multiple men, polygamy of three or more men or women, or a commune of many men/many women. The logic has no limits of perversity that can be affirmed.

[Brandan Kraft]

Incidentally, Ron Paul opposes Prop 8

ONE MAJOR reason why I don't call myself a libertarian. I am a libertarian republican, but I diverge from libertarians on abortion, gay rights, drugs, etc... It's also another reason why I opposed Paul in the primary!