Distributism

[Robert R. Higby]

WB: When the auto companies come to Washington to ask for money, I do think that Washington should attach some strings to the money--if you want the money this, this, and this has to happen.

Well, I think a lot of us want Washington to 'JUST SAY NO' to all such corporate requests in the first place. The only way to force the big 3 auto companies to survive is turn them over to the free market. I do think some of the regulative restrictions should be lifted on importing fuel efficient cars though. All of the big 3 are profitable in foreign countries, so if they were allowed to import some of the fuel efficient cars to meet their 'quotas' for higher gas mileage this would relieve a measure of their financial difficulty. But it is not a permanent solution--ultimately they have to go to Distributism or a new business model of some kind that works in today's economy.

[S.A.Reaper]

One issue that people are afraid to talk about is the ridiculous wages these assembly line people make. Total compensation equaling 75 bucks/hr is absurd. Full lifetime health benefits, 6k /month lifetime pension. The UAW must be silenced in this case. Start capping these blue collar workers pay scale and pay what the job is worth. I know for a fact it is not worth whatthey get paid. The burden rate for the big 3 has priced them out of business.

Not everyone is afraid to talk about it but it's political so talking does little. What we have is a union stranglehold on key areas of employment. The unions pay big money back into democratic campaigns, therefore, the democrats need to keep these unions afloat. In a land where the word representative doesn't have to mean one who represents, they do as they wish. Last count said americans were against all forms of this bailout 100:1 and yet they crammed it through anyway.

To me it's like feeding your best milk cow extra grain to keep her healthy although it's far more sinister than that. Throwing a cow extra grain doesn't force the others to pay the bill. The bailout does.

One thing I do know is this: When I see a truck large enough to pull my backhoe with and the price tag says $42,000 when I know for a fact the cost shouldn't exceed $20k, I just keep on walking... and always will.

This "distributism" already has a name and it's socialism. All we have to do is look at china to see where that will get us.

In all honesty though, even though I'm against the bailout, it should really be the least of our worries. The predictions for the next 4 years are grim indeed. Revolt and civil war, economic collapse, martial law...etc... have all been predicted by people who have been right many times before. Even the mass slaughter of saints will soon be here. I think the time for needing honest politicians has passed and the time for the need of strength to stand has arrived.

[Highlyfavored]

To me it's like feeding your best milk cow extra grain to keep her healthy although it's far more sinister than that. Throwing a cow extra grain doesn't force the others to pay the bill. The bailout does.

It's like making your house payment with a credit card, sooner or later...

[wildboar]

This "distributism" already has a name and it's socialism. All we have to do is look at china to see where that will get us.

Yes distributism already does have a name. Socialism is called socialism and distributism is called distributism. In socialism the government owns everything. In distributism ownership of the means of production is spread among the largest number of people. There is actually more agreement between distributism and free market capitalism than there is between distributism and socialism. It is a third way. If you want to see ways in which distributism works look to the Spanish Mondragón Cooperative or the old guild system. Distributism starts with the individual purchasing from local stores rather than the big box stores.

[rlhuckle]

If the auto unions wish to survive, they would be wise to broker a deal where they give up hourly wages for stock ownership--in essence; giving their people OWNERSHIP in the means of success and not just continuing to suck the blood of the organization!

[Highlyfavored]

If the auto unions wish to survive, they would be wise to broker a deal where they give up hourly wages for stock ownership--in essence; giving their people OWNERSHIP in the means of success and not just continuing to suck the blood of the organization!

This would imply logic on the part of the big 3 which we can see as of right now they lack.

[rlhuckle]

I think the big 3 are being very logical at trying to support and prolong themselves with money they can get any way they can.

The unions are not being logical. The unions see their demise and they are the ones who refuse to admit that the best thing for the auto industry if for the big 3 to declare bankruptcy, liquidate the assets in the unionized states, construct new facilities in non-union states and become competitive in the world markets again.

If the unions were logical, they would use their resources to re-train their members for new and different jobs in a changing economy.


Even IF Ford makes it without the bailout--it is just a matter of time for them also; how does one compete with companies that are paying half the labor costs to build similar products?

Blacksmithing and typesetting used to be good trades--now they are just hobbies for purists and artists. The writing is on the wall--unless we ALL end up working for the Govt (back, back, back in the ussr...)!

[Calvinator]

Who is next on the list to be bailed out? Are there forms to fill out? If so, where does one get one of these forms? Where is the line? How long of a wait is there? What are the qualification for being bailed out? And who is going to pay for all of this bovine scatology?

[S.A.Reaper]

Yes distributism already does have a name. Socialism is called socialism and distributism is called distributism. In socialism the government owns everything. In distributism ownership of the means of production is spread among the largest number of people. There is actually more agreement between distributism and free market capitalism than there is between distributism and socialism. It is a third way. If you want to see ways in which distributism works look to the Spanish Mondragón Cooperative or the old guild system. Distributism starts with the individual purchasing from local stores rather than the big box stores.

The reality of our current situation is that we do not have a working free market capitalist system in place anywhere on the planet, especially not here. I know we are led to believe that but it just simply isn't true. If distributism is "close" to free market capitalism it is a theoretical comparison based on ideology rather than real facts.

I don't mean to offend by insinuating no one has presented real facts, that is not my intention. What I mean by "real facts" is that the present state of our country more closely resembles a Marxist govt headed straight for socialism. The final destination will be full blown communism where one is told what/who they will worship and will pay with their life if they do not comply.

With our closed upper class, govt run "public" schools, a degradation of private property rights and the willful rejection of the will of the people by those who gain elected office, we no more resemble a constitutional republic than we do a free market economy. Unfortunately, without that constitution, there can be no free market nor can there be opportunity and freedom for everyday citizens. This country and it's economic structure is not what most of us think it is. All business is controlled by the state in one way or another. There is no free market.

If the system you're talking about resembles ours, it is also controlled by the state and it would seem much easier due to spain's lack of size and it's uniform law. The entire work force is only 18.5 million and even in it's best days, it's unemployment rate was still 10% but has risen to over 30% in the current global economic climate. The E.U. operates under one law and a single country without obstacles like the variations in our state laws would have the ability to do that but it appears to be less effective than whatever it is we are doing. I don't think there's any way that would work here without the total destruction of what's left of the republic and wouldn't work any better. 20% of Spain's population live under the poverty level which is similar to our numbers in that area. Spain has also been in a series of 10 year ups and downs for years and from 1975-85 was in total meltdown. 1993 was another time of economic crisis for Spain and 2006 was it's best recorded year but proves it was just as susceptible as all other nations to the current world economic problems and actually has the highest unemployment rate currently than any other EU country.

It doesn't look like it works.

I don't think moving forward with a new form of economics would help this country at all. If anything, the key would be to go backward.

[rlhuckle]

Who is next on the list to be bailed out?

That would be the "middle class" (as Obama defines it, of course).

Are there forms to fill out?

Your basic 1040 will do (maybe a W7 if Obama figures on including anybody who's actually paid INTO Social Security--illegals and such).

If so, where does one get one of these forms?

Your friendly neighborhood IRS office....

Where is the line?

I believe it's gonna be at about 250,000.00 per year--if you make that much, you don't qualify...

How long of a wait is there?

Obama says Jan 21 next year....

What are the qualification for being bailed out?

If you make less than 250 thou, you deserve it more than those who do (who will be paying MORE cause they can afford it according to Obama)....

And who is going to pay for all of this bovine scatology?

Businesses that turn a profit-- and individuals who make more than 250 thou a year (if you believe the spin); if you don't--your children, their children, their children's children......

We all can stop trying to be inovative and entrepreneurial--if we become successful, we're just going to have to give more of it to those who aren't or don't want to... they better deserve the fruits of successful entrepreneurship in Obama's America.

Hey brother, can you spare a few thou.....? I need a new flat screen......(a big one)....

[wildboar]

If the system you're talking about resembles ours, it is also controlled by the state and it would seem much easier due to spain's lack of size and it's uniform law. The entire work force is only 18.5 million and even in it's best days, it's unemployment rate was still 10% but has risen to over 30% in the current global economic climate. The E.U. operates under one law and a single country without obstacles like the variations in our state laws would have the ability to do that but it appears to be less effective than whatever it is we are doing. I don't think there's any way that would work here without the total destruction of what's left of the republic and wouldn't work any better. 20% of Spain's population live under the poverty level which is similar to our numbers in that area. Spain has also been in a series of 10 year ups and downs for years and from 1975-85 was in total meltdown. 1993 was another time of economic crisis for Spain and 2006 was it's best recorded year but proves it was just as susceptible as all other nations to the current world economic problems and actually has the highest unemployment rate currently than any other EU country.

It doesn't look like it works.

I did not say that the European Union was a distributist system nor did I say that Spain as a whole was an example of the distributist system. I said that the Spanish Mondragón Cooperative is an example of a distributist system.

If the unions were logical, they would use their resources to re-train their members for new and different jobs in a changing economy.

The new and different jobs are disappearing because America's economy is based on consumption rather than production. We can only exist in that way for so long and the bubble is going to pop. About 60 years ago or so it was difficult to even buy a foreign made paperclip.

If the auto unions wish to survive, they would be wise to broker a deal where they give up hourly wages for stock ownership--in essence; giving their people OWNERSHIP in the means of success and not just continuing to suck the blood of the organization!

I agree and this would be an example of a distributist solution to the problem.

[rlhuckle]

The new and different jobs are disappearing because America's economy is based on consumption rather than production. We can only exist in that way for so long and the bubble is going to pop. About 60 years ago or so it was difficult to even buy a foreign made paperclip.

Yes, this is the consequence of being the richest kid on the block. God has always used prosperity as a snare. The world cannot afford most American made products because American labor is too expensive--thus Americans buy American products at inflated prices because we can afford to--and the circle continues.

I agree and this would be an example of a distributist solution to the problem.

Yep, that's why I mentioned it.