Poll: Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, appropiate or inappropiate?

**Philo** · 12-19-2001, 12:37 PM

Are the books/movies of Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings immoral entertainment for Christians even if they are regarded as pure fantasy or make-believe?

If they are, then what about books/movies such as King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, Macbeth, Midsummer Nights Dream, Faust, The Wizard of Oz, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Mary Poppins, Peter Pan, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, Tom Sawyer, Huckelberry Finn, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, A Christmas Carol ??
All of these have this in common: they all involve in their stories some forms of the supernatural other than God, such sorcery, magic, witchcraft, or the powers of the devil.

Please give your opinions and comments.

Philo

**JC FR3AK** · 12-19-2001, 03:29 PM

I'm against all of it, simply because if we are so stuck for anything to do that we need to enjoy the 'harmless fun' that occult topics convay i honestly think we should just go out into the street and talk to people about Jesus (i do sometimes!) Remember if it's not from God it is from the world and untill the judgement day the world is the Devil's playground. I'd stear clear, it's not worth the risk!

**JC FR3AK** · 12-19-2001, 03:32 PM

P.S. also check out the Harry Potter thread under 'cultology' in the Christian Theology section!

**misty** · 12-19-2001, 07:07 PM

I filter that type of liturature and entertainment through the following question: What are the characters doing and what role does the occult play in the story? I am against HP because the kid is fully involved in witchcraft and becomes a wizard and a hero in the story. He is glorified in his use of it. However, if a story simply depects an element of a fantasy or tells a fantasy tale, it is not necessarily objectionable. Snow White has a witch in it but I don't consider it a story against my Christian beliefs.

**Philo** · 12-19-2001, 09:19 PM

Just a couple of more questions to add to this poll.

How many of you have read any of the Harry Potter books and or seen the movie?

How many of you have read any of the Lord of the Rings books and or seen the new movie?

**kiwimac** · 12-19-2001, 09:53 PM

Dear all,

Why do Christians waste their time with these sort of questions?
Do we actually think God cares what books we read to relax, what movies we view!

The Wise Lord bestowed a mind on us, obviously with the intent that we should think, the Bible does not spell out everything we are to do / say / be, Why? because God expects adult behaviour of us, ie the ability to make our own decisions.

Many christians are seemingly frightened by this idea, the possibility that God may not have spelt everything out to the nth detail fills such folk with fear.

For my part I have read both the Harry Potter books and the LOTR series and apart from the odd tendency to drool at the thought of virgin sacrifices, I have not been affected

Let's let go of this dross and start living the joy that Jesus said he was bringing. Especially at the time of year when we focus on the birth of Christ, it seems foolishness to marginalise ourselves even more than we have.

Kiwimac

**frog4ever** · 12-20-2001, 11:36 AM

hmph.. I dont agree with you... cause my cousin's site ~~~> www.salvationscorner.net they have forums there, too, and they talk about this. And he said that if it's not of God, then it's of Satan. And I think if you REALLY think that Jesus would sit there and watch Harry Potter or whatever, then it's ok. But I just dont think He would! I mean, they do have real witchcraft in the movie, and the Bible does tell us to stay away from it. I guess it's your choice, though...

**JC FR3AK** · 12-20-2001, 12:39 PM

To all those who doubt I have read all H.P. books and the Lord of The Rings trilogy. Oh and kiwimac I think God does care and further to that I have used my brain and is my opinion is what I first stated!

**GRANTM** · 12-20-2001, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by frog4ever [/i]
hmph.. I dont agree with you... cause my cousin's site ~~~> www.salvationscorner.net they have forums there, too, and they talk about this. And he said that if it's not of God, then it's of Satan. And I think if you REALLY think that Jesus would sit there and watch Harry Potter or whatever, then it's ok. But I just dont think He would! I mean, they do have real witchcraft in the movie, and the Bible does tell us to stay away from it. I guess it's your choice, though... [/QUOTE]

My Question is this, In Christianity, the covenants of free will
allow us this great freedom of choice, Why do you not respect those choices, If God is Omnipotent and Omniprescent, then how could there be a Satan,

Shakespeare , used the paranormal in all his works,

Why is the Manifestation of God In Jesus, Okay to read about,
But The same Manifistation in other people are ,That of witchcraft.

Why is a prayer answered by God to a Christian Okay

But why is a Prayer answered by God to a non believer believed to be witchcraft?

Is Christianity that arrogant ?

**JC FR3AK** · 12-20-2001, 01:51 PM

When God created Angels he gave them free will to obay him or to ignore him (he wanted friends not robots) Satan was one such angel who chose to go against God and now, because he is that sort of person (if we can judge him on a human scale) he is doing his best to confuse people from the truth. All powers that are not from God are from Satan and his demons. If a person trys to invoke these powers from Satan by means of witchcraft, divination etc. then that is wrong.
Jesus is God himself "...and the word was with God, and the word was God" are you saying that God has come to Earth through other people as well.
With witchcraft the question is not what does the practicer belive but what is the practicer invoking Satan or God.

P.S. I HATE SHAKESPEARE

**GRANTM** · 12-20-2001, 03:06 PM

Hello JC FR3AK

Quote:

{When God created Angels he gave them free will to obay him or to ignore him (he wanted friends not robots) Satan was one such angel who chose to go against God and now, because he is that sort of person (if we can judge him on a human scale) he is doing his best to confuse people from the truth.}

Are You stating here that Gods Covenants with man through Adam, Moses, Abraham, David , and Jesus are not valid,
and that as Jesus says all power comes from God ?

Quote:
{ All powers that are not from God are from Satan and his demons. If a person trys to invoke these powers from Satan by means of witchcraft, divination etc. then that is wrong.}

But there can be no no Satan if god Is O-O

Quote:
{Jesus is God himself "...and the word was with God, and the word was God" are you saying that God has come to Earth through other people as well.}

Yes, most emphatically, God has sent Many or has Manifested himself many times, The scriptures of the other religions tell that to us. If God loves mankind the way he does, then why would
he send just One Manifestation of himself Just to the Middle East, when what was requied and needed by mankind at various places at diffent times. that does not make any sense. in the times of Jesus How would the Chinese for example get his message, Or India,. Either God is Universal or he is not.
But God is Universal. Other cultures and nations, would have no cause to relate to or to understand, his message would have been distorted and be covoluted.There would be no common point of reference.

Quote:
{With witchcraft the question is not what does the practicer belive but what is the practicer invoking Satan or God.}

If there is a satan and I do not think there is, It is mentioned only like a perant (God) would treat children (us) if we are bad
The Bogeyman will get you. Because there is no logic for Satan
For satan to exist God cannot be O-O . second then even if there is the romotest possibility that there is a satan ( there is none)
By right right is it for you to decide wether he is invoking God or Satan. and interceding on his right to worship God In his way.

Quote:
P.S. I HATE SHAKESPEARE

I have no problem with that, but you do not have the right to condemn me nor anyone else that does. nor for any book or material, Where would we be right now if everytime a scientist
discovered a new Theory, that he would be put into jail and persecuted as being a heretic, as has been done in the past, in the name of Jesus, by virtue of the Bible.

The Bible or any such scripture ,is not a limiting resource, but when used in conjuction, with ones belief in God , with ones belief in Himself , is Inspiring, Inspiring mankind to excel, inspiring mankind in the pursuit of truth, Inspiring mankind as to the awe and wonder of this great Universe,

It is Mankind that was Chosen, To act as caretaker of the world.
Until, as we are currently heading to by actions, abdicating our role.

**JC FR3AK** · 12-20-2001, 04:01 PM

I wish to start by apologiseing to anyone who feels that i was condemming them! I was simply stating my view as a Christian.
NOTE: My view! I'm not saying that all Christians must think this way this is simply the conclusion which i have reached for myself.

I was also in no way whatsoever implying that God's covenants were not valid. God gave power to Satan (or Lucifer as he was known at that time) but he also gave him free will and has to respect his choices! Would it be free will if, although he could do what he wanted, he was exterminated when he made a wrong turn? I think not! Satan was given power and he abused it.

Also i apologise for phrasing myself badly. I meant AS other people not through other people. I quit agree with you God speaks to me through many people daily and I hope he speaks to other people through me. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding!

**GRANTM** · 12-20-2001, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by JC FR3AK
I wish to start by apologiseing to anyone who feels that i was condemming them! I was simply stating my view as a Christian.
NOTE: My view! I'm not saying that all Christians must think this way this is simply the conclusion which i have reached for myself.

I was also in no way whatsoever implying that God's covenants were not valid. God gave power to Satan (or Lucifer as he was known at that time) but he also gave him free will and has to respect his choices! Would it be free will if, although he could do what he wanted, he was exterminated when he made a wrong turn? I think not! Satan was given power and he abused it.

Also i apologise for phrasing myself badly. I meant AS other people not through other people. I quit agree with you God speaks to me through many people daily and I hope he speaks to other people through me. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding!

No apology need be given, not to me anyway, I was using you as the collective, as in you Christians, as you(singular) know
our paths have crossed before. I am not a Christian, But I respect their right to worship any way they want. we can go over and over wether satan exists or not, (he cannot, my view) but respect your opinion,

What I meant is that it is a time honored custom of the christian right ( as in political right), to Condemn, Imprison, Censor, Scare, Enslave, Torture, throughout time, all in the name of the Bible. All the churches in christianity have been borne because of politics, Except maybe the orthodoxy, I will defend my position, as you must defend yours, but by respect we can grow, I admit I get riled when I see this type of Christian right(Political) start to appear, it breeds intolerance, It shoes Christianity, One of the Big Six Religions, in a very bad light, to the other s that are not of your beliefs.

satan only appears in the Abrahamic Scriptures, No where else yet their are so many more commonalities, amongst religions in terms of how to live, and beliefs in one God That Is Omnipotent- Omniprescent (O-O)

**Philo** · 12-20-2001, 08:49 PM

I can see that this poll, or issue, has gotten a little side-tracked, and seems to be in danger of derailment.

So let me tell you what I think of Harry Potter.

Last month I saw a movie that was not just tolerable, I saw a brilliantly made film! I saw a movie that brings out a God given gift in children, and a gift in adults if they will allow themselves to tap into that gift for a couple of hours. And that gift is the gift of make-believe/imagination/ pretend. These wonderful things that every child possesses. The gift that every little girl has when she plays with her doll and pretends it can talk and act like a real person. But perhaps to the narrow-minded this too would be idolatry and witchcraft.
Children engage in fantasy/make-believe/pretend naturally. It is part of the development of their not yet fully developed minds. (And these kids do understand that HP is just make-believe.)
HP uplifts the family, distinguishes between the "bad guys" and the "good guys." And the heroes always win in HP.
Unlike some of the fair dished out on television, such as "sit-coms", and some of todays motion pictures, HP upholds and emphasizes the authority of parents and elders over children: That authority figures such as parents and teachers are to be respected. (And this is best seen even in Harry's abusive relationship with his foster parents, the Dursleys, and with the likes of a certain Professor Snape.)
You will never hear a boy or girl talk back to any adult in this film.
You will not hear one work of profanity in this movie.
There is no sex- not even kissing.
This movie upholds the family and family values like none I have seen recently.

To all the Jerry Falwells and John Hagees out there. To all of you who have ONLY listened to people like them, and have based your conclusions SOLEY on what they say. I say this; go out and see the Harry Potter movie for yourself and make up your own minds. Please don't let some televangelist, Christian author, or church make-up your minds for you!

I just wonder if these same people who are so busy condemning HP for encouraging sorcery and witchcraft would not be, if you put them in the 16th century, the ones condemning, burning, or hanging people for witchcraft as part of their "Christian duty."

Several months ago I was among those who condemned HP. But a Christian friend of mine told me that I was like so many others who have never read HP or seen the movie; that I was being "spoon-fed" by others who did not want me to think and make my own decisions and see the movie and read the books for myself. You see the Christian world and churches really don't want us as individuals to think and make our own decisions about what we believe; they want us to get in step with THEY believe.

(By the way I have read the first two HP books. I could hardly stop reading them! I am working on the third one.)

Philo

**JC FR3AK** · 12-21-2001, 10:03 AM

I respect your views but as far as I am concerned H.P. is a wizard and as a Christian i wish to steer clear from that but I have never NEVER told any one not to see it I have only given my point of view to them so once again I apologise if it seems I am pushing the point a bit!

**JC FR3AK** · 12-21-2001, 10:06 AM

P.S. I once again wish to make the point that I have read the books and I am against them because it shows magic as good and this will confuse people especialy children. I don't think it would do an adult much harm but certainly no good!

**Flip Special** · 01-15-2002, 04:05 PM

I don't think Christians have to fret at every decision they make. If we had to study and research every activity we cosidered doing, then we would have no joy. Rather, I think it's wise and wonderful to walk according to the Holy Spirit, and to stay connected to the vine as spoken of in John 15. If we can stay connected, then we will feel convicted by our counselor, the Holy Sprit, if we walk where we should not.

Stay very close to Jesus and walk according to the Spirit's leading. Walk and live in grace, and joy will abound.

**JC FR3AK** · 01-16-2002, 11:29 AM

You're right, we shouldn't worry unnesisarily about things. But how do you define unnesisary? I know some people who have been (and to some degree still are) involved in the occult because of some books with an occultic slant. They thought something like: Hey that's cool, wouldn't it be good if it was true! Lets try some of the stuff anyway, it has to come from somewhere doesn't it? And they being kids they tried the ouija board and some minor majik and for them it worked! This is an example of how these books which show majik, especialy in the real world, as good. This is what has put me off! I'm sure it's not common but is it right that Christians should enjoy and support occult entertainment when it damages the unwary even if not many? I think not.
We shouldn't worry unnesisarily but some things are too important to ignoe and brush off. We just have to decide what is right and what is wrong!

WHAT WOULD JESUS DO???
(wwjd)

**john b** · 01-17-2002, 05:36 PM

Hi kiwimac, I'm from New Zealand as well, now live in australia. Been watching the cricket??

I saw harry potter movie and thought it was not as bad as I had heard. I wouldn't recommend it for children though because it does get them interested in witchcraft.

I loved the Lord of the rings movie.

Basically I choose what I watch based on content, many christians are against harry potter who have not seen it but don't have problems watching movies and tv with blasphemy, foul language, murder etc. The number of christians who endorse the matrix are testimony to this point.

When the bible says everything in the world is of the devil it refers to the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, not just to everything in the world!

The early puritans did'nt differentiate between secular and sacred like the modern christians do, we feel we can't enjoy ourselves unless we "chrisitianize" everything and miss out on a lot in life that is permissable.

**jerkar** · 01-19-2002, 11:25 AM

Good points, john b. I'm in agreement. We are trying to walk a fine line as Christians. We don't want to sacrifice what we 'want to do' or what 'others are doing'. My Bible says that witchcraft is an abomination! I guess if God calls it an abomination (pretty strong language, and coming from God I better take it seriously) probably I should stay away from it. I am constantly hearing that "it's just fantasy" therefore it's OK. Well we all know that not all fantasy is OK, much less good for us. One example: pornography. If I have to read the book or watch the movie with my child in order to explain what is morally or ethically or Biblically wrong with it, should I really be allowing them to watch/read it? Once something is introduced into the mind, it can never be erased. A childs mind is such a precious thing, I just can't seem to justify turning it over to something that God calls an abomination.