An examination of Don Fortner on Christ being made Sin - Compared to Rushton

[ex-theologian]

What am I-as a simple missionary- doing amongst all these learned minds and eminent theologians!
The one thing I am still ashamed of is that- after my theological studies when I happened to visit an institution for mentally handicapped children and was asked to deliver the sermon- preached on the subject of "The Trinity".
I still wonder what any of the poor kids got out of that...
Maybe as much as I did when as a kid and set through long sermons, studying the wooden beams of the church building and wished I would hear the word "Amen"!
Blessed are the poor in spirit.
And in answer to my dear brother Dahlseide: I am sorry I put myself down as a Fullerist, but it seemed the least of all evils. I promise to study the matter further and change my affiliation if need be.
William Rushton seems to be a nice guy though.
I would have surely been burned at the stake some 450 yrs ago. By the catholics for reading the Bible in the local language and by the Calvinists for Arminian tendencies. Though I am more Calvinist than Arminian I haste to say.
Come to think of it I would have felt honoured by the company of Jeanne D'Arc and Michael Servet!
That's what you get for being an ex-theologian.

[Abraham Juliot]

William Rushton seems to be a nice guy though.

More on Rushton...

"OBITUARY OP MR. WILLIAM RUSHTON, JUN.
Died, Feb. 6, 1838, triumphing in the glorious gospel of the blessed God, Mr. William Rushton, Jun. of Liverpool, author of '' Letters on Particular Redemption, addressed to a Baptist Minister." For many years he conducted the evening service of Lime Street Chapel, Liverpool, the church under the pastoral care of the Rev. James Lister; and his labours his Master crowned with success. He was made through the power of the Holy Ghost the honoured instrument of building up God's elect in their most holy faith; and the glorious truths he preached to others, were his only consolation in his dying moments. He had no isms in his creed, but took the scriptures as revealed by the Divine Spirit. He considered the gospel to be the everlasting love of God to his elect, by which he distinguishes them from all other people in the world. Their complete righteousness and justification by the blood and righteousness of the Lord Jesus imputed to them ; their certain, infallible, effectual calling to the knowledge and enjoyment of Christ by the power of the Holy Ghost, and their final perseverance unto the end; and that their eternal salvation shall reflect everlastingly all the praise to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, by whose boundless grace it was alone effected. These truths it was his delight to declare from Sabbath to Sabbath, and God the Holy Spirit testified his approval of them, by comforting many of Zion's drooping pilgrims.

Liverpool. W. R. SEN."

These are some notable quotes from Rushton:

"I never heard or read of an individual, who had been led into the glories of sovereign grace, who did not cling to the same truth as his only support in the hour of death. I never heard that any such when they came to die regretted that they had carried the doctrine of grace too far or exalted Christ too much."

"But because the truth itself is fallen in our streets, therefore the love of the brethren for the truth’s sake faileth also. There is, however, a kind of charity prevalent amongst us, a spurious charity, which rejoiceth not in truth. It is now thought an evidence of a bigoted spirit, to contend earnestly for the peculiar doctrines of grace; and it is considered the mark of a candid disposition to bear with doctrines opposed to the truth, and to cover such opposition with the mantle of charity and forbearance."

"For wherever the precious doctrines of grace are kept back in the public ministry of the word, there, though carnal professors may be pleased, the saints will be deprived of that rich provision which God hath laid up for them; they will decline in the exercise of faith and love, and communion of saints will degenerate into formal worship. That this is the sad condition of many of Zion’s children in the present day is beyond a doubt."

"I shall only add, in the last place, that indefinite redemption is too weak to support the mind in the solemn hour of dissolution . Nothing short of a personal application of the atoning blood can destroy the fear of death. To die joyfully we must possess the assurance that Christ hath loved us and given himself for us, but his assurance we cannot have if Christ died only for sin and not for particular persons. Our safety, indeed, does not depend upon this assurance, but our joyfulness does."

"When Christianity became corrupted, nominal conversions took the place of regeneration and the kingdom of the clergy began to rise. The nations professing Christianity had no love for the truth, and as for the Spirit they knew him not. The simple gospel was exchanged for a scholastic theology founded on the philosophy of this world and the wisdom of Aristotle. Then were universities instituted, that by them men might he fitted for the Christian ministry. These have been the nurseries of the clergy in all ages, vomiting forth their antichristian divinity like the smoke of the bottomless pit, out of which a carnal priesthood, like locusts, have proceeded and overspread the earth."

"...Many of the apostles were destitute of human learning, even after the day of Pentecost, Acts iv. 13. The apostles and primitive pastors were qualified for their work not by the tuition of Gamaliel, or any other theological tutor, but only by the communication of the Holy Ghost. "Our sufficiency is of God; who hath made us able ministers of the New Testament." [2 Cor. iii. 5, 6.] How little do they know of the gospel ministry, and of the kingdom of Jesus, who imagine that academical instruction is sufficient for them whose weapons are "mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;" [2 Cor. x. 4,] who are "unto God a sweet savor of Christ in them who are saved, and in them that perish. To the one, the savor of death unto death; and to the other, the savor of life unto life." Well may the holy apostle add, "and who is sufficient for these things?" [2 Cor. ii. 16.]"

"If the sins of believers are blotted out, obliterated, and put away; if the righteousness of Christ is transferred to them, and this entitles them to reign in life with him, then it will follow that those who are engaged, from one Lord’s day to another, in teaching that "neither sin nor righteousness are in themselves transferable;" that believers in justification, "receive only the benefits or effects of Christ’s righteousness," are false witnesses for God, and are engaged in speaking lies in the name of the Lord. And it should never be forgotten, that although the heavenly Comforter, the Holy Ghost, is the author of all meekness, and in his influences he is compared to a dove, yet he has inspired his servants, the prophets, to write the severest things against those who "utter error against the Lord, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and cause the drink of the thirsty to fail." And, notwithstanding all the pretensions of such men to universal charity and liberality of sentiment, he exposes the secret iniquity of their hearts, and calls them by very foul names. He calls them liars, and churls, and vile persons and workers of iniquity because they "devise wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right." In perfect accordance with this, was the conduct of our Lord. His whole character was made up of meekness, kindness, and love; yet how severe were his invectives against those builders, the Scribes and Pharisees. In this also he is imitated, in measure, by all his faithful disciples, whom he has so earnestly warned to "beware of false prophets who come in sheep’s clothing." For in the same proportion believers are humbled with spiritual discoveries of the divine glory in the grand plan of salvation, will their holy zeal be inflamed against every corruption of the gospel, so as not to bear them that are evil, not even to receive them unto their house, nor to bid them God’s speed." -William Rushton, Defense of Particular Redemption

quoted from

A DEFENSE OF PARTICULAR REDEMPTION
Wherein the Doctrine of the Late Mr. Fuller
Relative to the Atonement of Christ Is Tried by the Word of God.

http://sermonplayer.com/c/Abrahamjul...1018_17080.pdf

[Robert R. Higby]

As I stated earlier, I defend the real transfer of guilt to Christ in imputation and not a mere 'AS IF' reckoning of guilt ala Fuller.

Where we ended up in dialog about Fortner a few years ago is that he finally appealed to mystery and paradox. Since he confessed both of the following contradictory statements:

1. Sin was really and truly imparted to Christ's person as an entity.
2. Nonetheless, Christ experienced no impulse of sin.

He had to leave it to mystery and not explain it logically. I will find references when I have time (which is not right now).

Thanks, --Robert

[Abraham Juliot]

1. Sin was really and truly imparted to Christ's person as an entity.
2. Nonetheless, Christ experienced no impulse of sin.

He had to leave it to mystery and not explain it logically. I will find references when I have time (which is not right now).

Thank you for anything you gather.

blessings

[Abraham Juliot]

If anyone has a sermon/article by Fortner wherein a contextual quote may be found teaching that sin was "IMPARTED" to Christ, please post it here.

[Dahlseide]

What am I-as a simple missionary- doing amongst all these learned minds and eminent theologians!

The one thing I am still ashamed of is that- after my theological studies when I happened to visit an institution for mentally handicapped children and was asked to deliver the sermon- preached on the subject of "The Trinity".
I still wonder what any of the poor kids got out of that...

I think I am more optomistic: with God all things -according to his will- are possible.
For like kids I dare to pray every day, for a list I have of those families I know or know of, thinking of the praise they will have when living on that new earth with resurrection bodies & whole minds; & there to realize how great our Triune God is in his restitution/redemption. I in vision them there, knowing what they were while here, but there with minds made perfect; how great will their praise be! & how great my praise be in hearing their story - I have a prototype in mind: Sarah who hugged me & her parents Aaron & Olivia.

Maybe as much as I did when as a kid and set through long sermons, studying the wooden beams of the church building and wished I would hear the word "Amen"!
Blessed are the poor in spirit.
And in answer to my dear brother Dahlseide: I am sorry I put myself down as a Fullerist, but it seemed the least of all evils. I promise to study the matter further and change my affiliation if need be.

My take on Fuller is based on Ella's book. I do not have the mind to dig into something contrary to my theology; I have enough spurious doubt.

William Rushton seems to be a nice guy though.

He is more than that to me, although I have not taken the time to read the post other than the issue of Christ actually, not figuratively, nor for punishment only, bearing the sins of the elect. If that is not true I am still in my sins.

I would have surely been burned at the stake some 450 yrs ago. By the catholics for reading the Bible in the local language and by the Calvinists for Arminian tendencies. Though I am more Calvinist than Arminian I haste to say.

To me an Arminian is one who teaches in effect “God has done all he can/will do, now it is up to you, by your free-will, to chose.”
Whereas to me a Calvinist is one who holds to the sovereignty of God & the doctrines of grace.

Come to think of it I would have felt honoured by the company of Jeanne D'Arc and Michael Servet!
That's what you get for being an ex-theologian.

I wish you would not downplay theology – I have in the past because I have thought of theologians to be academicians studying “God” from a neutral pt. of view – as though they were “above it all & looking down” hmmm what have we here.

But after reading Gordon H Clark I now see it as the most important endeavor a man can have: that is, to know God, as in the Bible he tells us about himself & his works. How grateful I am that I have been able to retire & invest in that work. In that regard, I often think of Tivo (sp?) in “Fiddler on the Roof”

[Abraham Juliot]

"But in what way shall we attain to this settled happiness of soul? How shall we learn to enjoy God? How obtain such an all-sufficient soul-satisfying portion in him as shall enable us to let go the things of this world as vain and worthless in comparison? I answer, This happiness is to be obtained through the study of the Holy Scriptures. God has therein revealed Himself unto us in the face of Jesus Christ." -George Muller

[Robert R. Higby]

For all who are still interested in this thread, please read this thread from 5 years ago at p-net:

http://www.predestinarian.net/thread...tner#post37958

[ex-theologian]

Dear brother Higby.
I think I will change my affiliation officially from Fullerist to Rushtonist, having read all this.
And if I be burned at the stake, so be it.

[ex-theologian]

It's true there are some real predestinated believers amongst theologians. Although In Jesus's ministry more of the other kind seemed to be predestinated, except for Paul maybe.
I still feel I missed out on being burned at the stake though, I think it would be quite a thrill to die for your faith.

[ex-theologian]

This is the best explanation I have found so far. I support also the opinion that there are many things which can't necessarily be theologically explained.
Like love, beauty or forgiveness to name a few.

[ex-theologian]

Yes you are right of course, most probably these down syndrome kids knew more about God than I did. I remember I didn't really understand my own sermon but the kids seemed happy when it was over.

[ex-theologian]

Still trying to find out how this site works...but I did like the obituary on William Rushton and it seemed he knew what he was talking about and lived it too.
I think apart from some one's theology, the life someone lived speaks clearer than any dogma's and creeds.
And to my untrained mind some words have the 'ring of truth' to me and others seem just like so many dead sermons.
And I remember it wasn't a sermon that raised Lazarus from the death...

[Robert R. Higby]

Andrew,

We are just genuine truth seekers here! We want to understand God's revelation without all of the distortions invented by man over the last 2000 years.